Worth it to 'check' IMS bearing during clutch? Clutch recommendations?

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Yes, it will outlive your engine.

You state that with such confidence, and you're most likely correct, but why doesn't the actual manufacturer have the same confidence and offer a lifetime warranty instead of just a 5 year?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by piper6909

You state that with such confidence, and you're most likely correct, but why doesn't the actual manufacturer have the same confidence and offer a lifetime warranty instead of just a 5 year?

Simple: They don't have to. They have done their homework, patented the design, and have the reputation with more than 25,000 units successfully installed.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Simple: They don't have to. They have done their homework, patented the design, and have the reputation with more than 25,000 units successfully installed.

Actually, from their own website, only "...3,000 IMS Solutions installed since 2008".

https://lnengineering.com/products/ims-bearing-kits-for-porsche-m96-97-engines/ims-solution/ims-solution-for-single-row-ims-my00-05.html

Of course they've sold other products, but we're talking about the "IMS Solution."

Like I said, I'm sure it's a great product and I'm not trying to take anything away from it or from you. I have a great deal of respect for you and your vast knowledge on these cars.

But you seem to have more confidence in it than LN Engineering does.

[tonythetiger]

Originally Posted by piper6909

Actually, from their own website, only "...3,000 IMS Solutions installed since 2008".

30,000...what a difference a digit makes
:+)

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by tonythetiger

30,000...what a difference a digit makes
:+)

I did a triple-take to make sure I didn't read it wrong. It actually says 3000.

Copied and pasted from their site:

WHY BUY AN IMS RETROFIT FROM LN ENGINEERING?


As of 2020, with 35,000 IMS Retrofit and 3000 IMS Solutions installed since 2008, our IMS bearing replacements are the most trusted and used by hundreds of independent mechanics and dealerships worldwide.

[Porsche9]

Haven’t been on the site in some time. IMS bearing talk makes me not want to be on the site.

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Haven’t been on the site in some time. IMS bearing talk makes me not want to be on the site.

Totally agreed. These arguments are completely pointless, a complete waste of time. Yet, you can’t help yourself commenting on it, it’s like an addiction.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Porsche9

Haven’t been on the site in some time. IMS bearing talk makes me not want to be on the site.

No worries, bud! We can always change the subject to oil and tires!

[Homeoboxter]

Originally Posted by piper6909

I did a triple-take to make sure I didn't read it wrong. It actually says 3000.

Copied and pasted from their site:

WHY BUY AN IMS RETROFIT FROM LN ENGINEERING?


As of 2020, with 35,000 IMS Retrofit and 3000 IMS Solutions installed since 2008, our IMS bearing replacements are the most trusted and used by hundreds of independent mechanics and dealerships worldwide.

I wonder how many of these 35000 Retrofits failed. If you scroll up in this thread there`s a report of a failed one. I came across other reports here and there on the web. Considering that 20 year old Boxsters way over 100k miles are out there running happily with the original 2-row bearing, still many of these were preventively replaced to a similar but hybrid bearing with a 25k miles warranty is more of a concern than the solution`s 5 year warranty. The Solution is overpriced (and overkill IMHO), but at least there`s no reports of any of them failing yet.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by Homeoboxter

... The Solution is overpriced (and overkill IMHO), but at least there`s no reports of any of them failing yet.

I'm just now reading up on an old Pelican Parts Forum thread from 2012 where this guy Tim, going by the handle 'feelyx' developed the same type bearing as the LN "solution" and said he could sell the bearing for $200 plus $50 for the oil feed setup. So, yeah. way overpriced. I'm halfway though the 18 page thread. Very interesting.

Who has done an IMS change (New Oil Fed Design Idea) - Page 9 - Pelican Parts Forums

[mikefocke]

We live in the world with accounting rules. As soon as LN extends the warranty, the accountants rules will cause them to hold a higher reserve for warranty repairs. Thus not as much profit and/or not as much money to invest in the next product. Eventually the IMS buys will dry up.

Having talked to the inventors, they have high confidence that the probable lifetime is ...

Heck, most of their dual rows are now beyond the 5 year point and I don't see any of the 5 forums I visit daily filled with tales of woe.

If I were making this choice, if I were investing in lots of preventative measures inside the engine, no doubt which I'd specify.

If I were to look hard at my situation and only see the car staying with me for 3-5 years it would be a different choice.

28 other failure points and driver error can total the car for practical purposes.

[tonythetiger]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

We live in the world with accounting rules. As soon as LN extends the warranty, the accountants rules will cause them to hold a higher reserve for warranty repairs. Thus not as much profit and/or not as much money to invest in the next product.

Accounting rules? They aren't publically traded, and they don't need cash reserve for warranty even if they were. If they extended the warranty, they would buy insurance; they even have a cost-positive option with offering insurance as an add-on. given the stated track record, insurance companies would consider this free money.
invest in next product? They are dealers for various manufacturers and automotive fabricators. They didnt "invent" anything when it comes to the IMS retrofit.

Smiles

[mikefocke]

Oddly enough, the person who discovered that the IMS could be replaceable despite Porsche's claims to the contrary was also named Tony.

As I was in pretty much constant contact with them (Jake and Charles) as they were inventing (and investing in) the process of providing a kit for a mechanic who had never done a replacement, I recall the frequent failures before the first product was complete. I was interested as I had a Boxster at the time and was also in charge of the production and productization of an item that couldn't afford to fail.

So I term it inventing if you are the first to produce a kit that may include parts, instructions and tools. And in the early days customer support to assure the product got a fair reception. No one else was offering that at the time.

There are patents on some of the LN/Flat6 IMS products. "The Solution" has three.

You may not like the choice they made. But recall just how old these engines are and how they don't have control over who does the install or who does the diagnosis saying that it was their product that failed. I sure wouldn't back any warranty under those conditions.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

Oddly enough, the person who discovered that the IMS could be replaceable despite Porsche's claims to the contrary was also named Tony.

As I was in pretty much constant contact with them (Jake and Charles) as they were inventing (and investing in) the process of providing a kit for a mechanic who had never done a replacement, I recall the frequent failures before the first product was complete. I was interested as I had a Boxster at the time and was also in charge of the production and productization of an item that couldn't afford to fail.

So I term it inventing if you are the first to produce a kit that may include parts, instructions and tools. And in the early days customer support to assure the product got a fair reception. No one else was offering that at the time.

There are patents on some of the LN/Flat6 IMS products. "The Solution" has three.

You may not like the choice they made. But recall just how old these engines are and how they don't have control over who does the install or who does the diagnosis saying that it was their product that failed. I sure wouldn't back any warranty under those conditions.

I saw that you also posted on Feelyx's thread. Were you in contact with him as well as Jake & Charles?

[mikefocke]

No I never talked to Tony. I was told by Jake that is where he got the idea that it could be done.

[piper6909]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

No I never talked to Tony. I was told by Jake that is where he got the idea that it could be done.

Ahh...Thanks. I thought his name was Tim.

So, from what I've read, Tony sold them the patent, although he can no longer discuss it. And now you've confirmed that neither Jake nor Charles figured out that the IMSB can be R&R'd?