Intro to Porsche

[nicecar]

a7k dollar p car is going to cost money he needs to tell his wife. Not that he can DIY.I have continually said WIFE AND BUDGET.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by nicecar

a7k dollar p car is going to cost money he needs to tell his wife. Not that he can DIY.I have continually said WIFE AND BUDGET.

A $7k ANY CAR is going to cost money to maintain. No one is disputing that. We are disputing the idea that it will require $10,000 a year, or $2,000 a year.
If you buy the right $7,000 Boxster, you will be just fine with a couple hundred bucks a year in maintenance. The occasional repair, if you keep it for a number of years.

However, I think I've figured out what the point you are trying to make is. Finally! Sorry I was so slow on the pickup.

You are suggesting, if I understand you correctly now, that if he spends more than that $7,000 budget, over the life of the vehicle, or however long he owns it, then he risks his marriage. Do I understand that correctly now? Is this your concern?

If I've understood that correctly now, then my recommendation would absolutely be different than what I've suggested below. My recommendation would be: don't get married yet. It's either not the right time, or the right one. If the maintenance budget of a car, any car, will put your marriage at risk.

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[nicecar]

yes and depending on his needs and the car he can AVERAGE 2k over several years. Lots of posts about replacing engines. Lets say he needed a waterpump, AOS, coolant tank and tires in the first 18months with no DIY. How much? He did not say its a hobbie car. He said SHE gave him a budget.how bout this ....potentially 150 dollars a month average expense to own the car. yea I am holding on to that number could be 2k a year.

[maytag]

Originally Posted by nicecar

yes and depending on his needs and the car he can AVERAGE 2k over several years. Lots of posts about replacing engines. Lets say he needed a waterpump, AOS, coolant tank and tires in the first 18months with no DIY. How much? He did not say its a hobbie car. He said SHE gave him a budget.how bout this ....potentially 150 dollars a month average expense to own the car. yea I am holding on to that number could be 2k a year.

Let's agree that we're too far apart in the way we approach things to come together on this.

Personally, if I didn't DIY, I wouldn't buy a used car. Period.

I have not found anybody that I trust to do work on my cars, including and especially the local "group" that has the Porsche dealership. I have had the same people do work on my Jags, Mercedes, Audi, Jeeps, etc. and now they've gobbled-up the Maserati dealership too, so another place I can't trust for my car. Simple thing's, mind you: alignments, etc. And they have so far COMPLETELY FAILED ME, every time. I wouldn't let them touch another one of my vehicles. DIY is much more reliable, satisfying, and cheaper.

Just sayin'.....

[nicecar]

exactly why I started DIY. Always collateral damage. Had my clutch done last month,got it back and intermittently would get stuck in 1st or reverse .Took it back he called and said to much play in shifter, 300 for stock 500 for short shift. Put SS on, got it back same thing. Came on this forum and found the problem, told the guy it was in the linkage in the rear. Called said they checked it out and couldnt find anything, must be internal. Has not got hung up yet and has been several weeks. Personally I have spent alot but I am sure you are right.

[nicecar]

off topic Maytag Blue cheese ,great product used 20 years in restaurants

[maytag]

Originally Posted by nicecar

exactly why I started DIY. Always collateral damage. Had my clutch done last month,got it back and intermittently would get stuck in 1st or reverse .Took it back he called and said to much play in shifter, 300 for stock 500 for short shift. Put SS on, got it back same thing. Came on this forum and found the problem, told the guy it was in the linkage in the rear. Called said they checked it out and couldnt find anything, must be internal. Has not got hung up yet and has been several weeks. Personally I have spent alot but I am sure you are right.

Ha! The JEEP guys told me I was wrong about a motor mount that had failed in my '13 GC. They told me "it's just rubber, and is supposed to flex". I told them "it's HYDRAULIC, and isn't supposed to be dumping fluid all over the frame..... ". I told them to order the part, and because I had a service warranty, I asked them to install it. Which they did.... eventually. I called on the 3rd day and said "how close are we?" and they said "we're waiting on a bolt for the A/C compressor to arrive from Denver." I asked "why are we messing with the A/C compressor?" they said "we bent the bolt when we used it to jack the motor up to replace the motor-mount".

!?!?!?!?!?!?! this was the DEALER, mind you.

yeah.... done with them all.
There are only a few things I can't do on my own cars, like evacuating and recharging the refrigerant in the A/C, for instance. so I just assume I'm gonna get screwed when I have those things done, and then I'm not disappointed when it happens. Like their $585 charge to refill the refrigerant on my wife's '15 JEEP Renegade. (Who knew there's a new refrigerant they're using now? Called R1234YF. EXPENSIVE)

[MWS]

Somewhere in the rhetoric the intent of this thread got somewhat lost. In my incredibly humble opinion, I believe the point being made was the ownership costs will start to pile up...IF Porsche recommended service is followed and even more so, if such service is done by an outside mechanic (either independent or dealer). Conceding the point that DIYing will greatly reduce the associated costs, many people don't either have the skill, time, tools or patience to work on their cars.

Also, it's my personal experience that these cars have some items that are more prone to failure than other cars I've owned, we could debate if that's due to engineering, complexity or poor quality, but that's not the point. My point is that some items that shouldn't fail as soon as they do, will...and that cost to repair/replace should be considered when thinking about purchasing, and that it's only smart to factor in the total ownership costs not just "how much am I forking out today?".

Before I'm taken to task on the items I've mentioned, here are some things I've needed to do that I've not experienced on any other car I've owned (and all at less than 40k miles):
- water pump failure
- climate control unit
- coolant cap (not a big $$, but common, really? I've never had to replace a cap)
- plug tubes
- radiator (due to pump failure)
- IMSB (proactive, but something I've never considered on another car)
- clutch
And I'm sure many items I'm forgetting in 10 years of ownership. Also, this list doesn't count wear items (that I *might* have done on any other car) and all other regular maintenance items (fluids, etc). As far as maintenance costs vs miles driven, this has been by far the most expensive car I've owned; not that I'm complaining, I just see it as a "pay to play" situation...and something that I think potential buyers should consider.

And yes, all of the numbers being thrown around are most likely "top of the head" guesses, but if I were to personally throw in my (ahem, humble) guess, maybe $2000/yr is about what I suppose I've averaged....and yes, your mileage may very. And one final admittance...I'm not a big DIYer on engine/drivetrain items, so I've paid to have those things done.

One last point of contention, I read "elitist" and I personally disagree with that term (it sounds insulting), but I'll admit that I see my Boxster as something special, or at least I feel something more than I do towards my other cars (which are Audis, and cost far more than my 986). I don't think my attachment is "elitist" and I don't think it's just the Porsche badge...I don't really know how to explain it, perhaps it's just got more "soul", and as it's won my affections, I take care of it. I suppose I could say my Audis are cars, but my Boxster is family. Well that's just wonderful, I've now described my Boxter as my "elite" vehicle, so I suppose I am an elitist. Sigh...

[maytag]

Originally Posted by MWS

Somewhere in the rhetoric the intent of this thread got somewhat lost. In my incredibly humble opinion, I believe the point being made was the ownership costs will start to pile up...IF Porsche recommended service is followed and even more so, if such service is done by an outside mechanic (either independent or dealer). Conceding the point that DIYing will greatly reduce the associated costs, many people don't either have the skill, time, tools or patience to work on their cars.

Also, it's my personal experience that these cars have some items that are more prone to failure than other cars I've owned, we could debate if that's due to engineering, complexity or poor quality, but that's not the point. My point is that some items that shouldn't fail as soon as they do, will...and that cost to repair/replace should be considered when thinking about purchasing, and that it's only smart to factor in the total ownership costs not just "how much am I forking out today?".

Before I'm taken to task on the items I've mentioned, here are some things I've needed to do that I've not experienced on any other car I've owned (and all at less than 40k miles):
- water pump failure
- climate control unit
- coolant cap (not a big $$, but common, really? I've never had to replace a cap)
- plug tubes
- radiator (due to pump failure)
- IMSB (proactive, but something I've never considered on another car)
- clutch
And I'm sure many items I'm forgetting in 10 years of ownership. Also, this list doesn't count wear items (that I *might* have done on any other car) and all other regular maintenance items (fluids, etc). As far as maintenance costs vs miles driven, this has been by far the most expensive car I've owned; not that I'm complaining, I just see it as a "pay to play" situation...and something that I think potential buyers should consider.

And yes, all of the numbers being thrown around are most likely "top of the head" guesses, but if I were to personally throw in my (ahem, humble) guess, maybe $2000/yr is about what I suppose I've averaged....and yes, your mileage may very. And one final admittance...I'm not a big DIYer on engine/drivetrain items, so I've paid to have those things done.

One last point of contention, I read "elitist" and I personally disagree with that term (it sounds insulting), but I'll admit that I see my Boxster as something special, or at least I feel something more than I do towards my other cars (which are Audis, and cost far more than my 986). I don't think my attachment is "elitist" and I don't think it's just the Porsche badge...I don't really know how to explain it, perhaps it's just got more "soul", and as it's won my affections, I take care of it. I suppose I could say my Audis are cars, but my Boxster is family. Well that's just wonderful, I've now described my Boxter as my "elite" vehicle, so I suppose I am an elitist. Sigh...

MWS, I'ma add you to my "when this dude takes the time to write something, it'll be worth reading" list. Along with JFP, Particlewave, Stone, RadiumKing, and so many others on here.

My car that stands as the absolute MOST Expensive, per mile, is an 06 Jaguar S tpe -R, at something north of $10/mile driven in maintenance and repairs. (!!) Yet if I were to compare my experience with that car to many other's, they'd tell me I was crazy. Second worst, by far, is a Mazda MPV from the '90's.

To Landrover enthusiasts, the list you provided would seem mild, compared to what they would have dealt with in ownership. But to a Miata owner, probably a different reaction. My point, I guess, is that our perspectives will vary based on our experiences, and our responses will likewise be relative to what else we've experienced.

I'll clarify (rather than defend) my use of the word "elitist", because I don't want to offend with its use. The word was chosen because it describes any group of people who acct in a way that seems to discourage inclusion of others. I believe its use is also appropriate to describe any "me, but not you" attitude, (such as "I can justify owning one, but you can't"). I did NOT use the word in its common usage; to suggest that anyone here thinks of themselves as better than others, because they drive a $10k used Porsche. (Although I do chuckle when I see people take pride in letting their neighbors think they have a $100 car, rather than correcting them.) As an enthusiast, I've ALWAYS sought to find ways to include more people. Heck, I even let my office-mates take my 986 to lunch on occasion. I think that if somebody can get into a Porsche because they love them, I'm going to try to do everything I can to encourage that.

Most of me looks at a post like the one that started this thread as a handshake, of sorts. I mean, do you really think the young man is going to make his decision based on anything we tell him here? Doubt it. He's gonna buy the car he loves. So why'd he ask the question? Because he's hoping to find a support-group for his addiction, haha. He's looking for some like-minded people to share his enthusiasm with. your post, MWS, outlining what items you've had to do and in what time-frame, allows him to check himself, his tolerance for DIY, etc. But a post that says "If you can't afford $10k / year in maintenance, just go buy a Miata" seems (to me) to be exclusionary in intent. hence: "elitist".

anyway..... Thanks for bringing us back to the ground. :-)

[nicecar]

nuff said Thanks.. maytag..now I cant understand what you are saying LOL

[maytag]

Originally Posted by nicecar

nuff said Thanks.. maytag..now I cant understand what you are saying LOL

Haha.... me either!

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