LNE products "solution vs time honered IMS bearing retrofit

[Luckyman01]

Either crowd mentality has gotten to me or just being prudent. I am planning on replacing the clutch on my 2000 S over July 4th.

I have owned her since 2004, she has 113K miles of which I put 80K on.

I have always tried to stay ahead of her. I am 65 so I will keep her until my knees give out and I cant get into anymore.

So thoughts;

Clutch, I have heard that the 987 clutch is a straight replacement and an upgrade, true/false? Your thoughts.

RMS seal, no brainer.

IMS; likely to do this at the same time, LNE seems to have 2 products;
Time honored bearing replacement (ceramic bearings) and a new "solution" with a oiler.

Any thoughts on these?
David

[BirdDog]

David

I've had the Solution in mine since mid-2013, so I wouldn't exactly call it "new". It's a permanent solution, and includes a slightly different version of the LNE spin on filter adapter. For peace of mind, there's nothing better.

It's also nearly twice the price of the time honored LNE bearing replacement, although it may have come down in price since I had it done 5 years ago.

Having said that, if I had to do it over again, I would still get the Solution.

Regardless of which way you go, make sure that whoever is doing the installation does an engine pre-certification check. This includes examination of the oil filter and removal of the lower sump cover (oil pan) to check for metallic debris. I'm pretty sure that LNE requires it, but if an indie shop is doing it (or you are DIYing it) you may be inclined to skip this step. DON'T. Why would you want to spend money on an IMS upgrade if your engine is on its way out?

Just my 2 cents...

[Luckyman01]

Thanks for your input, the "solution" was new to me, anyone else with thoughts?

It will be "DIY", I have a buddy with a rack.

[PaulE]

For my 2003 S I went with the LN Single Row Pro which replaced the OEM single row bearing for my model year with a double row ceramic bearing that fits in the same space. I figured there are so many other things that can kill an engine and the M96 in particular that I didn't feel the need to get a permanent solution for this issue.

[Jgkram]

I followed the same thought process as PaulE. Although my bearing showed no signs of wear or imminent failure upon removal, I decided to go with the Pro dual row bearing. The cost versus benefit just wasn't there for me with the solution especially given the age of these cars, my age and the other numerous issues waiting to bite you. I did think the LN build quality was great so you will be happy with either.

[dav9515]

in your situation i think of it this way, the LNE bearing replacement will last you another 80k miles (or more). It took you 14 years to put 80k miles on your car at which time you will be just about 80 and the car will be 32 years old with close to 200k miles on it. Translation - at that point and at your age 14 years from now the solution wont add any value to a car that old with that many miles on it.

Also, with yours being a 2000, you could pull the tranny and have a factory dual row bearing in which the LNE bearing replacement should never need to be done again. Your call, but for the extra $1,000 difference (at least) i'd say there's a lot better places to spend that money. with 113k miles, i'm sure there's more that needs/will need replacing soon (think suspension).

just my $.02

[10/10ths]

.....the "Solution".

Installed almost three years ago.

I've put 25,000 miles on it.

I like it. No moving parts. What is better than that?

I'd stick with the OEM 986 clutch and flywheel.

Also R&R the AOS while you are in there.

[mikefocke]

I pose a question like this when someone ask this.

How will you feel if you do The Solution and have an accident the next day or the engine fails from one of the other 28 modes of failure?

How much to put into preventative maintenance is so subjective. I'm convinced there is no right answer. I've over-maintained more cars than I've under-maintained. But I never saved on safety items like tires and brakes.

And you can't be sure it is even a candidate for an IMS replacement in certain Cayman years or if it has a replacement engine.

[10/10ths]

....well, what happens if a gigantic asteroid hits our planet and we all die in a flash tomorrow?

Come on, man!

By that reasoning, we'd never do anything.

Why fix the IMS when any number of other things could grenade the engine?

Simple---Because we KNOW that can grenade the engine and we have the ability to prevent that from happening for sure. At least we KNOW that problem is solved.

Don't suffer paralysis by analysis.

FWIW, when I bought my 986 about three years ago, I immediately flat bedded her to Flat 6 Innovations and had them install the "solution", R&R the RMS, Air/oil separator, water pump, all three cam chain tensioners, all the spark plugs, clutch, and flywheel.

Cheap?

No.

Priceless.

We've driven her all over the country with no fear and have been enjoying life.

EVERY car out there has some sort of flaw that affects a certain percentage of the build. After 20 years we all know what can grenade a 986. You just budget the preventative fixes into the purchase price of the car. Deal with it. It is what it is.

Just add $8,000 to the purchase price of any 986 for this work. Simple.

You can't expect to buy one of these for $5,000 on Auto Trader an expect a trouble free life.

That's what Civics are for.

I over paid for a solid car with full history and then invested even more money to make sure she would not leave us on the side of the road in Canyonlands.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

I pose a question like this when someone ask this.

How will you feel if you do The Solution and have an accident the next day or the engine fails from one of the other 28 modes of failure?

How much to put into preventative maintenance is so subjective. I'm convinced there is no right answer. I've over-maintained more cars than I've under-maintained. But I never saved on safety items like tires and brakes.

And you can't be sure it is even a candidate for an IMS replacement in certain Cayman years or if it has a replacement engine.

Mike, by far, customers that request the IMS Solution from the outset do so as an economic consideration. Yes, the Solution costs more, but if you are paying to get it done, and plan on keeping the car for a bit, the Solution makes more sense than getting one of the ceramic hybrids, simply because it is "once, and done". People seem to forget that the labor costs to simply get at the IMS is vastly more than any the costs of any retrofit kit, so doing in once now, and then again after so many miles does not always add up.

[dav9515]

while i get the appeal of a "do it once, and do it right" mentality, which i absolutely share, the "work" to get at the IMS bearing is the same work to get at a clutch so the idea of "paying for it once" in this case has a bit of an Achilles heel. If the clutch was a lifetime part then yes the solution would make the most "economic" sense.

Not putting down either choice, abstract of money everyone would do the "solution" but high mileage cars and the real idea on not as much how long you will keep the car but how many miles you will actually put on it is how i view it.

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Mike, by far, customers that request the IMS Solution from the outset do so as an economic consideration. Yes, the Solution costs more, but if you are paying to get it done, and plan on keeping the car for a bit, the Solution makes more sense than getting one of the ceramic hybrids, simply because it is "once, and done". People seem to forget that the labor costs to simply get at the IMS is vastly more than any the costs of any retrofit kit, so doing in once now, and then again after so many miles does not always add up.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by dav9515

while i get the appeal of a "do it once, and do it right" mentality, which i absolutely share, the "work" to get at the IMS bearing is the same work to get at a clutch so the idea of "paying for it once" in this case has a bit of an Achilles heel. If the clutch was a lifetime part then yes the solution would make the most "economic" sense.

Not putting down either choice, abstract of money everyone would do the "solution" but high mileage cars and the real idea on not as much how long you will keep the car but how many miles you will actually put on it is how i view it.

With the exception of outright abuse cases, we are seeing pretty high mileage for clutch replacements, usually well over 100K and some approaching 200K. Stop and think about how many ceramic hybrids that would be before the clutch came up again. The Solution does make economic sense from that stand point...….

We are also seeing Solution cars commanding a premium at PPI/resale time for that reason alone.

[ymkmkrz]

Originally Posted by Luckyman01

Either crowd mentality has gotten to me or just being prudent. I am planning on replacing the clutch on my 2000 S over July 4th.



I have owned her since 2004, she has 113K miles of which I put 80K on.



I have always tried to stay ahead of her. I am 65 so I will keep her until my knees give out and I cant get into anymore.



So thoughts;



Clutch, I have heard that the 987 clutch is a straight replacement and an upgrade, true/false? Your thoughts.



RMS seal, no brainer.



IMS; likely to do this at the same time, LNE seems to have 2 products;

Time honored bearing replacement (ceramic bearings) and a new "solution" with a oiler.



Any thoughts on these?

David

Having started with a 97 when a new engine from Porsche was the only remedy, I was more than happy to spend the money on everything Jake and LNE came up with. I went overboard and did Nickies, pistons
And everything else including the high performance upgrade. Later when the solution came out I was one of the first in line. I have a second car with only the original ceramic bearing. I’ve had zero issues out of either one, but there is no doubt as to which one I will keep. There is a performance difference too, but knowing the car is virtually bullet proof is a really good feeling. I have never felt that way about any of the many Pcars I’ve owned over the last 3 or 4 decades. They have all had their flaws.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rickvd]

I am a two month owner of a low mileage 2004 Boxster S. I am a retired Navy guy and in the navy we did sound cuts on lots of electrical motors and combustion engines to perform predictive analysis. Last thing we wanted was a bearing failure during deployment. I have read quite about about the IMS bearing failure etc. but no where have I read about using sound analysis to anticipate bearing wear/failure. Is this just not done?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Rickvd

I am a two month owner of a low mileage 2004 Boxster S. I am a retired Navy guy and in the navy we did sound cuts on lots of electrical motors and combustion engines to perform predictive analysis. Last thing we wanted was a bearing failure during deployment. I have read quite about about the IMS bearing failure etc. but no where have I read about using sound analysis to anticipate bearing wear/failure. Is this just not done?

It was tried but proved inconclusive.

[10/10ths]

if you install the “Solution” you don’t have to worry about checking it with ultrasound or some such to see if it is going to grenade—-because it WON’T grenade.

[mikefocke]

Back in 2012 a guy with a background in vibration analysis (Mark Jennings) was trying to apply the same technique to the M96. He wrote up something for the local PCA mag (Uber Alles) but then the effort dropped out of sight after about 3 months. I have a copy of the article.

[Rickvd]

Thanks for the Intel i would have thought it would have been as predictive as in the navy.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by 10/10ths

if you install the “Solution” you don’t have to worry about checking it with ultrasound or some such to see if it is going to grenade—-because it WON’T grenade.

I've seen a select few people making this claim, and while I agree that it does show promise, there is simply no independent data to back that statement up.

Plain bearings wear and fail, too.

[MWS]

Originally Posted by particlewave

I've seen a select few people making this claim, and while I agree that it does show promise, there is simply no independent data to back that statement up.

Plain bearings wear and fail, too.

Any friction will lead (eventually....) to failure. If the solution were to use supercooled Helium to chill a superconductor and apply an electric charge to create a magnetic field allowing the IMS to spin in a null void, then MAYBE we're on to something .

I guess the point is to balance practicality and cost with extending life. To me any of the LN options seem better than the Porsche singe row at accomplishing this. Then again, we are just managing failure and attempting to mitigate risk...if you are pretty low on the risk/sphincter spectrum, then stay with the Porsche product. The higher you reside on the freak-out bandwidth, the closer you move to the superconducting magnet idea. I guess I'm somewhere in the middle...although I do have some spare wire around, just need to find some liquid Helium....