Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Boxster General Discussions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-24-2017, 10:00 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Should I buy? '05 987 without service records but only 39k miles?

Nice mid-age guy is selling his 05 987 base boxster. It has a clear autocheck and he's taken it to a local euro shop for the last 14 months he's owned it - basically for oil change only. Getting rid of it because of medical problems (back pain + sports car = ouch). Car's in great condition and has less than 40k miles. I would still likely get a PPI....I wonder how necessary it is? AutoCheck shows 4 owners. It was sold as CPO at around 12k miles. I'm weary that there are no other records...but how much concern should I really have if it has such low miles and clears a PPI?

pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 10:45 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 11
Was the RMS and IMS done?
My indie said he prefers higher mileage with service records. I ended up getting a 2006 base with 106,000 one owner miles on it who serviced it at the Porsche dealer. We had a complete history on it. Maybe he just said that to make me feel better??
gqllc007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 10:49 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by gqllc007 View Post
Was the RMS and IMS done?
My indie said he prefers higher mileage with service records. I ended up getting a 2006 base with 106,000 one owner miles on it who serviced it at the Porsche dealer. We had a complete history on it. Maybe he just said that to make me feel better??
Neither. I was under impression that the 987s were far less likely to need the IMS fix. Ideally I'm looking for a 03-04 986 S with at least IMS done and less than 80k miles, but that's proven very difficult. This 05 is a great deal . Very alluring.
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 10:53 AM   #4
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksnyper View Post
I would still likely get a PPI....I wonder how necessary it is?
A PPI is absolutely necessary! You need to know what you're getting into. If there are only a couple things wrong, you can easily spend $2000 fixing them two weeks after bringing it home. Don't be that guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksnyper View Post
I'm weary that there are no other records...but how much concern should I really have if it has such low miles and clears a PPI?
Lack of service records shouldn't be a deal breaker in itself. But it does mean that the PPI is even more important. Find the best Porsche shop in your area and have them do the PPI. It will be the best $300 that you can spend - even if you decide not to buy the car.

Low miles is a double edge sword. Yes, low mileage is good but it also means that the car sat a lot of the time and 12 years of sitting in a garage isn't necessarily a good thing.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 10:58 AM   #5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Good advice. I'm likely going to pass. I think I want a 986 S with solid service history more than this one. I found one in Florida that could fit the bill if I can get the dealer down (hate buying from dealer but they sell tons of Porsches).


Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
A PPI is absolutely necessary! You need to know what you're getting into. If there are only a couple things wrong, you can easily spend $2000 fixing them two weeks after bringing it home. Don't be that guy.


Lack of service records shouldn't be a deal breaker in itself. But it does mean that the PPI is even more important. Find the best Porsche shop in your area and have them do the PPI. It will be the best $300 that you can spend - even if you decide not to buy the car.

Low miles is a double edge sword. Yes, low mileage is good but it also means that the car sat a lot of the time and 12 years of sitting in a garage isn't necessarily a good thing.
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 11:48 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,371
Buy from a dealer and you don't know the reason for why the car was acquired and you do know it will cost you the dealer's profit and expenses extra.

The one you mentioned at least you know the last 14 months history and you know the seller's motivation. I sold my last Boxster for the same reason.

Yes to the PPI, that should tell you what you'll need to spend to bring the car up to date on its maintenance. I bought a 39k miles '01 that was about 6 years old and promptly did brakes, tires and a 90k it being the most comprehensive service. But I knew those costs before I made the offer and so did the seller. So in the end I got a well serviced car whose maintenance I knew that was wonderfully reliable for 5 years. Could it not have been? Sure.

Owned a base and a S and frankly for highway and local commuting, I couldn't tell the difference. I've driven well over 100MPH in a 1.3 litre sportscar from the 60s which means I value handling more than the raw speed/power.

Last edited by mikefocke; 10-24-2017 at 03:53 PM.
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 11:54 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Thank you for this valuable perspective. The 05 is up to 60k maintenance according to the seller. I may call the shop it's been worked at and see if they can share the service history (is that an usual request?).

The dealer car is sweet but overpriced and with shipping and PPI will blow my budget. I definitely want to find the right car so not rushing on emotion. Originally was waiting to spring but this time of year the prices really come down as well.

Oh and I plan to drive a base this weekend to see if I even "need" and S, which will open up the inventory of available cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
Buy from a dealer and you don't know the reason for why the car was acquired and you do know it will cost you the dealer's profit and expenses extra.

The one you mentioned at you know the last 14 months history and you know the seller's motivation. I sold my last Boxster for the same reason.

Yes to the PPI, that should tell you what you'll need to spend to bring the car up to date on its maintenance. I bought a 39k miles '01 that was about 6 years old and promptly did brakes, tires and a 90k it being the most comprehensive service. But I knew those costs before I made the offer and so did the seller. So in the end I got a well serviced car whose maintenance I knew that was wonderfully reliable for 5 years. Could it not have been? Sure.

Owned a base and a S and frankly for highway and local commuting, I couldn't tell the difference. I've driven well over 100MPH in a 1.3 litre sportscar from the 60s which means I value the handling more than the raw speed/power.
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 02:30 PM   #8
Registered User
 
marck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 64
Garage
So after I purchased my Boxster I put the vin into mycarfax. Not to promote them but all the service records came up after I did that and it appears to be free. They match the info I got from the seller but were missing a few minor details, dates etc were all correct. I'm not sure if they somehow check if you are actually the owner or not but you might have the current owner put the vin into that system and see if the info comes up.
marck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 02:33 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by marck View Post
So after I purchased my Boxster I put the vin into mycarfax. Not to promote them but all the service records came up after I did that and it appears to be free. They match the info I got from the seller but were missing a few minor details, dates etc were all correct. I'm not sure if they somehow check if you are actually the owner or not but you might have the current owner put the vin into that system and see if the info comes up.
Thanks I pulled autocheck reports using eBay but something to consider
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksnyper View Post
I may call the shop it's been worked at and see if they can share the service history (is that an usual request?).
Yes, its a normal request. Some shops may share the info and some won't. Seems to be a shop by shop decision but it can't hurt to ask.
__________________
1999 996 C2 - sold - bought back - sold for more
1997 Spec Boxster BSR #254
1979 911 SC
POC Licensed DE/TT Instructor
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2017, 03:56 PM   #11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sanford NC
Posts: 2,371
2005 was a transitional year for motors and some will have the earlier single row (worst reputation but many options for replacement) and some the last single row large bearing which is much better but can't be replaced without splitting the motor's case at much expense.

Can't tell which from the VIN or engine serial number despite what some internet claims would have you think. You can increase the probability by knowing the date of manufacture but there is still the chance that the factory just did one last dip into the parts bin.
mikefocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 04:37 AM   #12
Registered User
 
husker boxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
2005 was a transitional year for motors and some will have the earlier single row (worst reputation but many options for replacement) and some the last single row large bearing which is much better but can't be replaced without splitting the motor's case at much expense.

Can't tell which from the VIN or engine serial number despite what some internet claims would have you think. You can increase the probability by knowing the date of manufacture but there is still the chance that the factory just did one last dip into the parts bin.
^^^ this ^^^
Is it fish or fowl? No way to know which IMS you have in an 05. My suggestion was going to be look for an 06 if you like the 987. An 06 will have the newest designed IMS. Nothing wrong with an 05 but you have no idea which IMS you have. Unless it's ready for a clutch job, you'd need to trust your luck until it was time for a clutch replacement to see which IMS you have.
__________________
PCA National HPDE Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)
husker boxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 05:36 AM   #13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker boxster View Post
^^^ this ^^^
Is it fish or fowl? No way to know which IMS you have in an 05. My suggestion was going to be look for an 06 if you like the 987. An 06 will have the newest designed IMS. Nothing wrong with an 05 but you have no idea which IMS you have. Unless it's ready for a clutch job, you'd need to trust your luck until it was time for a clutch replacement to see which IMS you have.
Exactly why I waited for an 06 plus it was only $12,500 in great condition with a complete service record. Downside is high mileage
gqllc007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2017, 12:31 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by gqllc007 View Post
Exactly why I waited for an 06 plus it was only $12,500 in great condition with a complete service record. Downside is high mileage
I found an 06 S with 89k miles and complete service records. Only issue is there have been like 2 minor accidents repaired on there, that don't show up on CarFax. Guy is asking $15,500. A bit high for my taste.
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 08:22 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
2005 was a transitional year for motors and some will have the earlier single row (worst reputation but many options for replacement) and some the last single row large bearing which is much better but can't be replaced without splitting the motor's case at much expense.

Can't tell which from the VIN or engine serial number despite what some internet claims would have you think. You can increase the probability by knowing the date of manufacture but there is still the chance that the factory just did one last dip into the parts bin.
Where do you find date of manufacture? Do you also know the ranges of dates that indicate which motor
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 08:24 AM   #16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Called the shop it has been worked on. They saw it in June for oil change, air/cabin filter, plugs, drive belts, trans axle something, and brake fluid. At the time they didn't recommend anything else, he says. This is a euro-specialized shop who works on MB, BMW, some porsche and ferrari. Seller has dropped the price for almost within striking distance. The uncertain IMS issue still scares me particularly as it is an 05, even with a PPI. Thoughts?
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 12:31 PM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefocke View Post
2005 was a transitional year for motors and some will have the earlier single row (worst reputation but many options for replacement) and some the last single row large bearing which is much better but can't be replaced without splitting the motor's case at much expense.

Can't tell which from the VIN or engine serial number despite what some internet claims would have you think. You can increase the probability by knowing the date of manufacture but there is still the chance that the factory just did one last dip into the parts bin.
May 2005 manufacture date. What do we know about that, if anything?
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:05 PM   #18
Certified Boxster Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,616
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinksnyper View Post
May 2005 manufacture date. What do we know about that, if anything?
There is no way to know for sure. Sorry, let me rephrase that: No. Way. To. Know. For. Sure.

Just buy the car you like and replace the IMS bearing and be done with it.

Last edited by thstone; 10-26-2017 at 02:20 PM.
thstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:29 PM   #19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by thstone View Post
There is no way to know for sure. Sorry, let me rephrase that: No. Way. To. Know. For. Sure.

Just buy the car you like and replace the IMS bearing and be done with it.
Yeah I'm just thinking the added cost may take me over my comfortable budget. Whereas a 986 with the work done may be a better bet.
pinksnyper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2017, 02:53 PM   #20
Registered User
 
husker boxster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,319
As thstone is saying, we don't know crap.

Here's the Reader's Digest version - Porsche did not keep records of which engine has which IMS version. The smaller, replaceable version from 2001-2005 breaks at approx. 10% rate while the newer, bigger, non-replaceable version from 2005-2008 breaks at a 1% rate. Porsche builds a bunch of engines before they're used, so they sit in storage while they wait to be installed. The new IMS version started hitting the assembly line sometime in 2005, possibly in Mar 2005. But people have earlier 2005 build dates and have the new version in them. Your May build date would indicate a potential new version IMS, but what if there was an older version sitting in the corner that was not immediately installed? It's possible.

Are you out of the woods regardless of which IMS you have because it's now 13 yrs old? Maybe, but not entirely. Low mileage cars seem to be more prone to failure because the grease washes out of the bearing and it relies on oil to keep it lubricated. If the car is sitting for long periods of time, the bearing can be sitting w/o oil until the engine is started as the oil drips down into the crankcase and away from the bearing - not good to have a bearing running for a period of time w/o lubrication. Oil intervals also play a part in longevity. In the early 2000s, oil change intervals were suggested to be as long as 15K mi. It's been found that was too long since the oil lost viscosity and wouldn't properly lube the bearing. It's important if you can get a history of the oil change intervals. Today's logic dictates 5-8K mi is more in line with longevity.

If you are bent on buying this one, you have options:

1. Immediately do a clutch job on it and only then will you be able to determine whether you have the old or new IMS. If the old, you can change it and be worry free. If it's the new, you are virtually worry free (assuming decent oil interval history) since the chance of failure is 1%. Just add $2-3K into the cost of buying to do a clutch job. If just the clutch is replaced, the job will cost less. Add for a flywheel that may need replacing along with the IMS if it's the old version.

2. Do an oil analysis every 4-6 mo to keep an eye on metal levels in the oil (an indication the IMS is going south). This will give you a heads-up until a clutch job is necessary. If the oil passes inspection, you can feel more confident the IMS is OK. An oil analysis costs approx. $30.

3. Buy the car, do nothing, and just wait until the clutch needs replacing to investigate the IMS. You have anywhere from 1-10% chance of failure, which translates to a 90+% chance that nothing will happen. Some people can live with those odds, some can't. It depends on the level of risk you're willing to take. Just remember, if you're one of the unfortunate 10%, you have a $10-15K bill staring you in the face.

I think members have held back on discussing the nuts & bolts of IMS as this topic has been beaten to a bloody pulp 1000s of times over. Hopefully my synopsis gives you a flavor of the issue and if you need more info, just search on IMS. There are plenty of members who have driven hundreds of thousands of miles on their original IMS and plenty of members who have had failures and know first hand the possibility of failure exists. I own 2 of the later version IMS cars and I sleep well at night. YMMV.

It comes down to how much risk you're willing to shoulder.

__________________
PCA National HPDE Instructor
2008 Boxster S Limited Edition #005
2008 Cayman S Sport - Signal Green
1987 928 S4 - Granite Green Metallic (Felsengrun)

Last edited by husker boxster; 10-26-2017 at 02:56 PM.
husker boxster is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page