What is this box worth?

[mr.borrie]

Copy paste from here http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/61329-camshaft-adjuster.html

but i figure its a separate question so other topic:

I have been reading my whole vacation about all boxster.



Today i went and saw the boxster. i went trough most of the check that can be done mentioned in the book

-Car sitted fine, looked in good condition and no gaps between panels
- interior decent, driverside chair has some damage from getting in and out, needs filler and some paint
- paint looked good but i was rainy, i asked him if it was decent dry and he said yes
- OEM 17 inch wheels with good tires
- seals where good, driverside had a little nick in it . other than that fine
- radiators looked clean
- lights could be clearerd, seems a bit faded
- roof looked good, had been replaced in 2007
- Disk and pads and calipers looked in good shape
- spoiler went up and down good, so did the roof
- engine light was on, like the seller told me the garage told him it was the camshaft sprocket being stuck (Variocam? or can the sprocket be really stuck)
- Car felt good while driving, i had the owner drive me around .. not sure why i did not took the wheel myself
- exhaust looked good had been replaced due to rear damage in 2008 , same for the rear bumper








And one more before i left again




After walk around and the drive around we went inside for coffee. Talked about our work, Both in IT. and than some more about the car.

He has been the owner for 7 years and had all the maintance done and has all the papers for that (did not see them though) we talked a little about the price but i'm still a bit scared with the work that is needed.

I wonder what you guys would think a car like that is worth

[tommy583]

At the very least you need to get a code reader on it to see why the CEL is on. A PPI would be a great idea. It's hard to put a value on a car in a different country. It all depends on what the going rate is in your area.

[Timco]

Read that code first. Then get back to us.

[jcslocum]

Did you take your cable and plug in with a laptop???

[rusty69911]

very hard to estimate value being that your in Netherlands, what are the going prices there like for boxters? in Australia a boxster thats worth $18000 in the US would only be a $7000 car

[Smallblock454]

Hello,

i would recommend a car internet sales platform and search for Boxsters in that country. By that you'll get a price range for the cars the sellers ask for. As we all know the real buying price is in reality below the asking price.

And than the car seems to have some problems. So i would substract the costs for that (done by a pro shop) from the asked price.

http://www.autoscout24.eu or AutoScout24 could be a european platform where you could do your research.

Regards, Markus

[jdraupp]

Being that there's an engine code that he hasn't identified (what he claims it is doesn't make any sense and he has no proof) the car to me is worth zero. Please please please get a pre purchase inspection done by a dealer. If the variocam is the issue that's a big deal to repair. Emphasis on big.

[mr.borrie]

I ended up not brining the laptop, it thought it would be weird thing to do, besides the car asking price is one of the cheapest (dutch) cars online minus money for the repair (2500 euro was quoted for the repairs) . What to me would not be worth the risk. I rather buy a non error code car. But I went to check the car regardless.

I did ask the seller about my plan to bring the laptop and he told me he was fine with that. He then offered me to bring the Porsche to his specialist (who he befriended and did the work on the car for the last 7 years) so i can see the Porsche on the bridge to really inspect the bottom of the car and talk with the specialist about the error codes and the work it would involve me to do.

We talked some more over coffee and seems like an honest good guy. I feel like he is just look for a good home for his car. I did take him up on his offer to go to the garage later and check it out. Also asked if he can in advance communicate the trown codes to me.

Perhaps a good time to get familiar with the codes regarding cams and what they implicate in terms of time/money.

Edit: found it
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/boxster-cayman-forum/596544-boxster-obd-ii-fault-code-listing.html

i would guess one of these
P1524 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 2
P1530 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 1
P1531 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 1
P1539 Camshaft Adjustment, Bank 2
P1397 Camshaft Position Sensor 2 - Signal Implausible, Short to Ground, Short to B+
P0341 Camshaft Position Sensor 1 - Signal Implausible, Short to Ground, Short to B+

[husker boxster]

IDK, this story gets fishier by the minute.

You don't sell a car throwing a cel. It's a massive red flag.

If the cel isn't serious / expensive, you fix it before you put it up for sale. Otherwise you come up with some story about probably just on O2 sensor or some $10 part, etc.

If he has a longtime Porsche mechanic on retainer, why didn't he have the cel fixed by the mechanic?

If this mechanic is his friend, do you think you'll get the truth from the mechanic?

It's fine if you want to have the mechanic put the car on the lift and let you look at it. But don't believe 50% of what he tells you and assume 45% of the rest is questionable. Don't consider this visit as a proper PPI. Someone not connected to the car needs to inspect it.

Take a step back and consider the thing I've just written. This transaction has the makings of a bad mistake.

[thstone]

Rule #1 - Never believe anything a seller (or his mechanic) says unless there is documentation to back it up.

Rule #2 - Get an professional PPI - even if you're buying from a dealer.

Rule #3 - Don't skip Rule #2.

[mr.borrie]

Thanks guys, I think I do need to get back on my feet a little.
I just want to get a Porsche and it seems this is a change for me to obtain one for little money.


My judgement might have got clouded over the years of buying Volvo's with problems and fixing them in a few weeks and drive them years with no problems at all. With Porsches there is a huge difference in parts prices that can make working like that be dangerous.

What difference can a PPI make though, will they give a warranty if they failed to spot something? I would doubt that..?

Maybe a bit more information on how this boxster was offered. I posted an topic on a dutch Porsche forum that I was looking at Boxsters in a lower budget and some work would be fine for me. When I wrote that I was more thinking about worn brakes, or suspension stuff though since the engines are new to me.

That's when the seller contacted me, he has not been using the Boxster for a while now and thought that this car would be a good one for me as I was looking for one that has some work on it.

The seller was upfront about the error, its a 2500 repair. So that does sound like a variocam replacement a 1000 euro parts alone repair.. pretty serious.

So if I where to proceed with this "gamble", I do see it like that. I would be needing to not pay more for the car than it would do in spare parts and a broken engine. I don't really know how much that would be. I have seen boxsters with engine failure for sale around 4K but no clue what they fetch in reality.

[jdraupp]

The cheapest porsche you buy will be the most expensive one you ever own. You're again taking this guy at his word. He is not your friend. And even if he was, he's not a certified porsche mechanic and you're still just guessing at the problem. A ppi done at a certified dealer or top notch indy will tell you everything that's wrong with it and give you a realistic expectation of repairs needed. You know nothing factual about this car...just what you've been told. That's scary.

Based on these posts, you're blindly in love with the car. If you don't want to take our advice, buy it. But don't come crying here when your engine blows or you are on the hook for a ridiculous repair...

[husker boxster]

Thanks for the update and back filling some of the details. That explains why someone would be trying to sell a car with a cel flashing. And we now know you have some mechanical ability. These are important details.

However, you do need an experienced Porsche mechanic to diagnose the problem. Then you can scour the Internet for the cost & effort to do the repair. There are plenty of forum members who have torn down their engines w/o being a Porsche certified mechanic and lived to tell about the many miles thereafter. Only you can decide if this is something you can tackle.

But if you wait, there might be one that appears needing brakes and a bunch of service that would be better suited for someone to jump into the Porsche world. You don't have to marry the first girl who kisses you.

[fridsten]

I once bought a car after a ten minute test drive and with money burning in my pocket.

It was a 924 and it turned out to be a complete waste of money. I paid loads (in 924 money) just to keep it running and getting it to look decent, but in the end I had to sell it in parts

In retrospect I should have looked at more cars instead of buying the first one I looked at. I should have done my homework.

This is why, when I was looking for a good 944 last year, ended up with a near mint Boxster. The ones available were just not good enough.

[p3230]

I bought a 2003 Boxster S of a person that had it for sale on eBay in Canada, and saw it for the first time the day i picked it up. It drives great and so far i put a new starter switch in it. I talked with the person that i bought it from a few times but it didn't have no check engine light on it so i drove it home and i still driveit. Second car i bought like that, first one i bought in San Diego and had it shiped here. So you have to have a bit of faith in people and try to see where they're coming from.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by mr.borrie

What difference can a PPI make though...

Are you willing to gamble an amount that could be equal to or more than the value of the car? If so, then buy it today and end of disucssion. Otherwise, a PPI is meant to mitigate that risk to a reasonable extent.

For example;

First, let's start at the low end of the cost spectrum - the air oil separator, water pump, and/or battery/starter might need replacement. Unless you know what to specifically look for, you'll miss this and end up with repairs anywhere from $250 to $1,200.

Next, let's consider some mid-range repairs like suspension components, bushings, wheel bearings, CV joints, and/or a/c compressor. Unless you know specifically what to look for, you might end up with repairs from $500 - $2,000 in addition the the cheaper stuff above.

Last, let's consider the worst case and consider the engine (it has a $2,500 CEL right now), transmission, and/or clutch. What if that $2,500 CEL turns out to be something more serious? What if you don't happen to notice that small glitch when shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear indicating that the 3rd gear synchro is worn out? You could easily be looking at $1,500 - $5,000 of repairs in addition to the cheap and mid-range issues above.

At the end of the day, its your money and its your choice, but spending $300 on a PPI is the best money that you'll ever spend.

[mr.borrie]

Thanks for all the replies and feedback, everybody makes good points! I'll have to summarize it all and decide for myself what would be fitting to this situation.

[mr.borrie]

Car has been sold to his garage/friend. He will fix the adjuster, polish it and put it up for sale.

I'm not sure if I feel sad or relieved, it could have been a great deal. But again with no proper PPI you never know what else will roll out of it. And I don't have the cash to really go into huge repairs at the moment so its probably a good thing I did not jump on this one at this point in time.

I did sneaked into a Porsche dealer garage yesterday and talked about the error and the price and mileage on the car. He thought it would have been a steal.

Like I said, not sure how I feel about this one. Luckily there are many boxster for sale here. For now I think I will lay low again unless I see a real good deal again