Ims replacement life

[DWBOX2000]

I noticed the warranty on a LN ims retrofit is 75k or 6 years. Is the 6 years a real estimate of how long one of these will last before deteriorating just from age or is it just to put a time frame on a warranty, so it is not indefinite? I don't mind dropping the 2k for 75k miles but there is no way I will hit that # in 6 years. Also, are they superior to the porsche original or just a replacement?
Thanks

[JayG]

Getting out the popcorn....

[tommy583]

Hmmm. My LN bearing is at about 60K in four years. I hope I don't have to get a new one next year

[DWBOX2000]

I appreciate any feedback. Just trying to get some educated opinions versus the ads I read.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

I appreciate any feedback. Just trying to get some educated opinions versus the ads I read.

The current LN recommended replacement is 6 years or 75K miles. That said, many of the installed single and dual row LN bearings have exceeded 75K miles with no apparent problems. To date, I have not heard of a correctly installed LN bearing failing at any mileage level from age or wear.

If you are that concerned about possibly having to replace it, install the IMS Solution instead. With no moving parts and a pressurized oil feed, it will outlive your engine and is considered the only permanent retrofit.

[particlewave]

I thought the service life was 50k miles for at least some of LN's bearings...?
I guess it's different for different bearings.

I have a double row, so it'll stay in there until or if I see signs of wear (metal in the filter). When I get to that point, I will be replacing it with an OEM double row
Have you had a look at your flange? You may have a double row.

[DWBOX2000]

Thanks, for the info JFP. I had read about the solution but unfortunately it is a bit out of my league. Not complaining, just saying. Either way, sounds like the 6 year number is not a definite. Thanks again.

[DWBOX2000]

Regarding double or single, I have no idea. It's a 2000 S.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

Regarding double or single, I have no idea. It's a 2000 S.

And you won't know until you pull it apart and look at the flange. 2000-2001 cars can go either way, and the only way to know is to pull it apart.

[particlewave]

The transition happened in 2000-2001, so you have a 50/50 chance. The only way to know is to look at the flange. I've read that you can do it with a borescope (cheap $5 eBay cable cameras work fine) without removing the tranny, but I've never looked into it. If you have a double, rest easy.

[Gelbster]

The life expectancy of any bearing is influenced by how well it was installed. SO if the LN bearing was badly installed ......Hopefully yours was installed correctly.
The history of the LN installs is rather boring -nothing happening - good.
The 'competitotrs with all sorts of variations on the theme may be a much more interesting story?
I mean DOF, roller bearings and other often unspecified replacements.

[B6T]

The way I looked at it was this... If I have to replace it every 75k, it's not a permanent solution, so I'm going to install an OEM bearing and at least be able to determine if the bearing is on its way out via debris in the filter, and my physically checking the bearing at an interval in-between.

From what I can tell, you can't detect a failing ceramic bearing in the same way because it is obviously not magnetic, and perhaps much worse for the engine and running surfaces if the balls start to deteriorate to a much finer ceramic particle, if not all out fracture immediately and take out the engine in a few revolutions.

[particlewave]

Originally Posted by B6T

The way I looked at it was this... If I have to replace it every 75k, it's not a permanent solution, so I'm going to install an OEM bearing and at least be able to determine if the bearing is on its way out via debris in the filter, and my physically checking the bearing at an interval in-between.

From what I can tell, you can't detect a failing ceramic bearing in the same way because it is obviously not magnetic, and perhaps much worse for the engine and running surfaces if the balls start to deteriorate to a much finer ceramic particle, if not all out fracture immediately and take out the engine in a few revolutions.

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

[Tcar]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

I would, and did.

In fact, most of the failures were from cars where the old bearing had failed and there was debris in the engine that damaged the new bearing.

Not to say there were not bad bearings.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

Anything can fail... But when something goes south the posted will seldom post the full story. Like the guy that had a dealer do the retrofit procedure, and they didn't even change the engine oil, which had been in service for a year prior! Or the technician that was using impact tools to tighten the center IMS stud nut...

Within the next 45 days or so the amount of LN IMS Retrofit components sold will break the 28,000 mark; with that many retrofits being done, all over the world, and mostly by those who are NOT Certified Installers that have been trained, things will happen.

For the record, there have been zero failures of the IMS Solution. This is a fact.

To date there have been ZERO failures of any IMSR products that were installed by a Certified Installer. This is a fact.

Also, we have performed over 500 IMSR procedures here under my roof, including the very first one. To date we have not had a single failure, of any of the technologies that LN sells. This is also a fact.

The installation DOES matter, and too many shops pay techs on flat rate, where they have to race the clock to make a decent pay check at the end of the week. This promotes negligence, hastiness, and typically does not allow for enough time to inspect and "qualify" an engine prior to the IMSR procedure. That takes 4-6 hours here, but most shops want the job done, and running in 10 hours. Its a recipe for disaster that no one has control over.

That said, you'll not find a single direct customer of ours that has a complaint, or whines on these forums. Our customers are like Smshirk, and they appreciate what we do for them. The whiners, and haters are always the guys that take issue with something, and have not spent a single dollar here. I have no idea why they do what they do, but I have to admit, it is entertaining.

[thom4782]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Also worthy of note is that FACT that LN bearings do fail regularly, but every time someone posts online about it, Jake Raby and a few of his minions immediately attack the poster and blame him, the engine or the installer. Sometimes to the point that the poster removes the post completely. Over the years, I've witnessed this behavior on at least half a dozen occasions. Very shady stuff...

I'll never buy an LN bearing.

Okay, now put facts behind your allegation that LN bearings 'regularly' fail.

Let's start with this. What do you mean by "regularly' - does it mean 50%, 25%, 10%, 1% or some other percentage of LN bearings have failed. My sense is that reasonable people would say 'regularly' means at least 10%.

But let's be conservative and say for argument sake that 'regularly' means 1%. Well that would mean at least 250 of the 25,000+ LN installations have failed. So who are these 250 people who allegedly experienced a LN bearing failures and why aren't their stories finding their way onto the forums. Could it be because LN bearing don't fail directly without some other intervening cause like left behind debris. Could it be you've vastly overstated your case?

Jake at least has stated the LN case in testable terms. So here's your opportunity to prove him wrong by putting some names and numbers on the table. Without testable facts, statements are just opinions

[Timco]

Originally Posted by thom4782

Okay, now put facts behind your allegation that LN bearings 'regularly' fail.

Let's start with this. What do you mean by "regularly' - does it mean 50%, 25%, 10%, 1% or some other percentage of LN bearings have failed. My sense is that reasonable people would say 'regularly' means at least 10%.

But let's be conservative and say for argument sake that 'regularly' means 1%. Well that would mean at least 250 of the 25,000+ LN installations have failed. So who are these 250 people who allegedly experienced a LN bearing failures and why aren't their stories finding their way onto the forums. Could it be because LN bearing don't fail directly without some other intervening cause like left behind debris. Could it be you've vastly overstated your case?

Jake at least has stated the LN case in testable terms. So here's your opportunity to prove him wrong by putting some names and numbers on the table. Without testable facts, statements are just opinions

He's an engineer. You wouldn't understand his reply.

[B6T]

I think the IMS Solution is the best idea, hands down. It's just so expensive, otherwise I would have gone with that and never worried about the IMS again.

[Gelbster]

I had a new LN bearing fail.But it had debris from a recent sloppy IMS replacement job done by the P.O. What do I mean by sloppy ? The old IMS failed and spread debris into the oilways. It would have failed the LN pre-qualification tests. But the P.O. went ahead anyway.
He should have replaced the engine with a good used one or had his engine entirely rebuilt correctly. Instead , I got to rebuild it and deal with collateral damage.
But I would not say this was an LN Bearing failure. I never even mentioned it to Jake when discussing other subjects. Fortunately I knew the whole story about the bearing and the engine so I did not mistakenly blame the innocent parties.
Also remember LN do not manufacture the deep groove ball IMS bearing , they researched,tested and then specified it.

[ltusler]

If you see metal particles in the oil its too late to change the bearing.