I was a victim and it was my own fault.

[jb92563]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune but apart from the knee everything else is easily replaced. Something like that is not your fault, its the crazies that live everywhere.

I consider you lucky that you did not have the opportunity to shoot the intruder as it would have complicated your life and cause some serious stress.

I have several guns as well that live in the safe because I really don't want to shoot anyone if they are just after material things.

I have struggled with keeping a gun in a drawer beside my bed since I know that if I do use the gun I will actually have to kill the intruder, due to the laws in the US.
If I wound him, I'm really forced to finish the job so that I don't end up getting sued and having to pay millions of dollars for pain and suffering to the intruder.

Ever wonder why police never try to slow someone down rather than killing them?
Its a case of liability and that dead men tell no lies. So its always shoot to kill for them.

I can't imagine having to kill someone, unless my family is in mortal danger.

I have a dog for early warning, and hope it never comes to me having to get the gun, but if I do I know that I will have to go all the way.

Sad state of affairs really but that's how things are here.
Sometimes I feel like mankind is going off the rails and perhaps its time for a mass extinction so things can start over.
Nature seems to be trying to kill us off be we are proving to be a very resilient species.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by jb92563

Ever wonder why police never try to slow someone down rather than killing them?
Its a case of liability and that dead men tell no lies. So its always shoot to kill for them.

Ha. If only. Police are trained to end the threat if deadly force arises. That doesn't mean shooting until someone's dead, but there are no warning shots and no shots to the knee cap. Liability for cops doesn't end if the perp is dead, far from it. Have you seen the news lately? It's entirely damned if you do and damned if you don't.

It's a crappy messed up world we live in, but in spite of the greedy dirt bag oriented society we exist in, if someone places your life in jeopardy then you better be prepared to take theirs to protect yours. Deal with the bs liability later. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

[Bootlegger]

Sorry to hear Tim. Two words...German Shepard. Big ass ears and a guttural growl send the low-life's to a place less difficult. Heal quickly...

[Timco]

Oh, we have an attack dog.



Here is is asleep under his blankie as dude stole our stuff.



View from where I was. Dude was at the end of the counter on the right.

[Stormbringer]

Sorry to hear about this Tim. If I can do anything let me know. As you know I am a CCW holder but I rarely carry. My handgun is like yours under the bed in a small pushbutton safe.

Hope you are on the mend and we can get out shooting soon.

Mike.

[Chuck W.]

Ugh.... So sorry Tim. Bad stuff and the outcome could have been much better. But, it could have been much worst too. Hang tough and heal quickly.

[78F350]

My wife's dad was a San Diego cop and parole officer. She is adamant about keeping the doors locked any time we are not alert and aware of what is in our home.
The guns are all in a safe now, since my grand-kids are old enough be curious.
As I relax in my recliner I always have something within arms reach that I can toss at an intruder:


Take care Tim, and heal well.

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by jb92563

S
Ever wonder why police never try to slow someone down rather than killing them?
Its a case of liability and that dead men tell no lies. So its always shoot to kill for them.

Your statement is incorrect on several levels, and the police don't shot to kill. If the use of deadly force is warranted police shoot with the understanding that their actions may result in death. They don't shot to kill.

[jb92563]

Originally Posted by Chuck W.

Your statement is incorrect on several levels, and the police don't shot to kill. If the use of deadly force is warranted police shoot with the understanding that their actions may result in death. They don't shot to kill.

I guess maybe its just my perception then, plus if police decide to shoot, they will likely hit what they are aiming for and I assume its the upper torso and will keep shooting till the threat is subdued? (Mortally wounded due to good aim=dead?).

We have all seen the 3rd party videos of police shooting perps and the result is nearly always the same for the perp.

Shoot to kill may not be the politically correct terminology, but if an officer draws his weapon its because he intends to shoot and use deadly force and he is usually successful.

I would never run from police or try to resist as it only takes the hint of intent to give sufficient cause for police to draw weapons, and I'm good with that, so those that do try to resist perhaps have a death wish
Anyways, I respect the job police do, feel bad they put themselves in harms way far too often and am glad that they hit what they aim for.

I'm still torn as a citizen on what degree of defense/offense strategy is best as the police cannot protect us in a timely manner and we do have to be prepared to defend our family and home without assistance.

Just a month ago and several weeks after the San Bernardino Terrorist shootings we had an incident at my work with a customer making a bill payment and things did not go well. The angry citizen apparently threatened to get a bomb and return, the security guards had no weapons to deter or repel this person who did actually return, and when the police where called they said their ETA was 2 hours due to another incident they were dealing with.

So ultimately we are all on our own for defense and even terror threats. Sobbering!

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by jb92563

I guess maybe its just my perception then, plus if police decide to shoot, they will likely hit what they are aiming for and I assume its the upper torso and will keep shooting till the threat is subdued? (Mortally wounded due to good aim=dead?).

When I hear people say this I think about two recent shooting shootings in NYC, one in Herald Square and another in Times Square more recently where the NYPD ended up shooting more bystanders than suspects. Even those trained week in and week out to deal with a pressure situation can't hit a moving target when the adrenaline is pumping.

[Crib]

Be it that i'm from a country with quite strict gun laws, but I must admit I find it a bit scary to think of the situation where practically everyone has one or several guns and where also the "normal" people needs to be prepared to use it should such a situation be forced upon you. That thought tastes like pure **************** to me..

It must mean that the threshold of getting your hands on a gun is lowered to the ordinary junkie. I mean the criminals will get their hands on weapons either way but I can't help to think that they will be more likely to be used in a more planned way such as a heist or "internal" gang fights etc with less regular folks being involved.

It's not paradise over here, not at all. We have daily murders around the country and a school massacre attempt a while ago, but I still dont feel the immediate and surrounding danger that I sense when reading your comments.

Maybe I'm overreading this and as I said, It's different everywhere and ones viewpoint is of course strongly affected by that.

Edit: Forgot what I meant to start with: My deepest sympathies to OP for being victim to this!

[Chuck W.]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

When I hear people say this I think about two recent shooting shootings in NYC, one in Herald Square and another in Times Square more recently where the NYPD ended up shooting more bystanders than suspects. Even those trained week in and week out to deal with a pressure situation can't hit a moving target when the adrenaline is pumping.

So true. Police Officers are well trained and have a 15-25 percent hit probability in street encounters when they fire their guns. It is one thing to shoot a paper target in a sterile environment. It is another to have an armed suspect firing at you and returning fire.

[Smallblock454]

If somebody steals something, let him steal. There is no cause to risk your life or health for an iPad or Macbook. Things can be replaced. Lives not.

Also if you shoot him or seriously injure him (for example he's paralyzed for the rest of his life) that is no solution. Over here in Germany we're not allowed to have weapons without a firearms licence. And i think that is good.

Wish you a fast recovery.

Just my 2 cents
Markus

[particlewave]

Let him steal away...that's what insurance is for.

[Jay B.]

That is crazy and very ballsy that somebody came into your house like that. Glad to hear your still here to tell the story.. When I moved out here to Arizona a couple years ago I couldn't beleave how its still the wild west according to the gun laws. I mean damn near anybody can carry a gun here . My family and I like to camp and I'm always packing my side arm when we are camping in the desert. A lot of crazy sh$% goes on out in the desert.

[Pdwight]

Usually a robbery like this came from the inside, not one of your friends actually did it....but supplied information. I am very careful about who I let into my home and what I tell people I have.

Dwight

[pierre shags]

Let’s imagine you did have a gun handy and chased him, but he was faster and getting away, so you shot him at 30 feet and killed him.

What would the law be? He wasn’t presenting a threat. You shot him in the back for a laptop.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by pierre shags

Let’s imagine you did have a gun handy and chased him, but he was faster and getting away, so you shot him at 30 feet and killed him.

What would the law be? He wasn’t presenting a threat. You shot him in the back for a laptop.

I think the idea here is if the gun was handy, the full Metal Jacket would do the chasing, he wouldnt have to go after him. If you shoot someone in the back running away from you outside your home that is murder unless you can articulate that you were in fear for your life in that scenario. Hard sell. If you shoot someone who is burglarizing your home, that is called home defense. Of course the media usually only cares if there's a race issue to push.

[Jamesp]

Originally Posted by pierre shags

Let’s imagine you did have a gun handy and chased him, but he was faster and getting away, so you shot him at 30 feet and killed him.

What would the law be? He wasn’t presenting a threat. You shot him in the back for a laptop.

In Texas that's hot pursuit and you have a defense. And it's not for a laptop, which is an incredibly short sighted viewpoint. It's for being a thief, and that is a career criminal. He is presenting a threat to your property and you have every right (in Texas) to resolve that threat with deadly force. Your actions would be reviewed by the DA because it is against the penal code to discharge a firearm in the city limits (assuming a city) and against the penal code to use deadly force. You literally have to plead guilty to those, and then present your defense (resolving the threat) which happily is supported by Texas law.

Glad you didn't kill anybody Timco, though you would be justified. No legal entanglements and no dead guy to think about. Hope the knee heals up quickly, and you might consider getting a doggy friend for you (semi worthless) dog. Wishing you the best!

[Racer Boy]

Originally Posted by Jamesp

In Texas that's hot pursuit and you have a defense. And it's not for a laptop, which is an incredibly short sighted viewpoint. It's for being a thief, and that is a career criminal. He is presenting a threat to your property and you have every right (in Texas) to resolve that threat with deadly force. Your actions would be reviewed by the DA because it is against the penal code to discharge a firearm in the city limits (assuming a city) and against the penal code to use deadly force. You literally have to plead guilty to those, and then present your defense (resolving the threat) which happily is supported by Texas law.

The OP is in Utah, which I'm sure has different laws. If I'm not mistaken, every state has different laws around this than Texas!

In most states, once the perp is outside of your home and you shoot them in the back, then you are in some serious legal trouble.

Timco, how is your knee today?