10-20-2015, 09:04 PM
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#21
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I am my own mechanic....
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,432
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Yeah, my AC tools and gauges fit perfect but it's not Schroeder. It's a similar stem type. He just needs to know yes or no.
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'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
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10-22-2015, 07:16 PM
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Update:
No codes.
No fuel out of rail when ignition is on.
Strange buzzing coming from motor while ignition is on.
Any ideas? I have a video of buzzing if anybody needs to hear it.
Last edited by jeeper31; 10-22-2015 at 07:36 PM.
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10-22-2015, 11:01 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 1,522
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Under normal conditions, the fuel pump will start only for a couple of seconds when the ignition is first switched on - this pressurises the system ready for startup. If you are hearing the fuel pump run continually with just the ignition on (engine not running) then you have a faulty pump.
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2001 Boxster S (triple black). Sleeping easier with LN Engineering/Flat 6 IMS upgrade, low temp thermostat & underspeed pulley.
2001 MV Agusta F4.
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10-23-2015, 03:01 AM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Tinker
Under normal conditions, the fuel pump will start only for a couple of seconds when the ignition is first switched on - this pressurises the system ready for startup. If you are hearing the fuel pump run continually with just the ignition on (engine not running) then you have a faulty pump.
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But if the pump was running continuously wouldn't there still be pressure in the rail?
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10-23-2015, 04:25 AM
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#25
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I am my own mechanic....
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeper31
But if the pump was running continuously wouldn't there still be pressure in the rail?
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Yes, and he is right about the pressure in the rail. Make a jumper to jump out the slots where the fuel pump relay sits. Then it stays on. That's how I checked my dead FP.
The buzzing and clicking and whining is SAI, and the throttle self adjusting.
__________________
'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
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10-23-2015, 05:31 AM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timco
Yes, and he is right about the pressure in the rail. Make a jumper to jump out the slots where the fuel pump relay sits. Then it stays on. That's how I checked my dead FP.
The buzzing and clicking and whining is SAI, and the throttle self adjusting.
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Sorry. Confused. Who is right about the rail. I know the relay is good as I just out a new one in. What does jumping it do? What am I looking for?
SAI?
Thanks
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10-23-2015, 05:45 AM
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#27
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Project Addicted
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 623
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The relay only works when the engine is cranking or running. That is why you need to jump it to get it to work for diagnosis purposes. You can't just throw parts at this problem. You really need to work at it step by step and prove each part good or bad.
Jump the relay and see if you get fire and or hear the pump running.
There is also the crank sensor to check to see if that is giving a signal to drive the pump and spark.
That can be tested with a volt/ohm meter. Have you got a good one???
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Jon
1966 912, 1976 911
1986 944, 2000 Boxster
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10-23-2015, 06:04 AM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcslocum
There is also the crank sensor to check to see if that is giving a signal to drive the pump and spark.
That can be tested with a volt/ohm meter. Have you got a good one???
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A bad crank sensor also would keep the fuel pump from getting power…
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10-23-2015, 06:05 AM
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#29
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I am my own mechanic....
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,432
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We are all kinda right.
You need to jump the terminals or slots where the relay plugs in to get constant FP power. Then you can check the rail pressure thing.
SAI is secondary air injection. It's a pump that runs for a minute or less on cold startup.
CPS (crank position sensor) is passenger side and views slots on the flywheel. Typically your tach does not move when cranked if this is bad.
__________________
'04 Boxster S 50 Jahre 550 Spyder Anniversary Special Edition, 851 of 1953, 6-sp, IMS/RMS, GT Metallic silver, cocoa brown leather SOLD to member Broken Linkage.
'08 VW Touareg T-3 wife's car
'13 F150 Super Crew long bed 4x4 w/ Ego Boost
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10-23-2015, 06:36 AM
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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So pardon my denseness. Learning as I go along.
I am going to jump the FP relay to see if the fuel pump stays on. If it does I will check the rail for pressure. If no pressure the FP is bad. If there is pressure it could be the CPS? Check that with Voltmeter or if cranking the engine and tack moves it is good?
Really sorry again. Trying to piece this all together.
Appreciate the help.
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10-23-2015, 07:13 AM
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#31
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Project Addicted
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 623
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Ok you are getting there!!
Yes, get FP to run and you can usually hear it once jumped. If you hear nothing then we will know how to give better guidance.
If it's running, then I think you can almost jump directly to the crank position sensor.
The blue arrow is the actual working part of the sensor and the RED arrow is the plug to the wiring harness. I'm not certain that you can get to the plug from up top. I will look for an ohm meter reading for you.
More info:
http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/46610-hard-starting.html
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Jon
1966 912, 1976 911
1986 944, 2000 Boxster
Last edited by jcslocum; 10-23-2015 at 07:21 AM.
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10-28-2015, 04:50 AM
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Ok. Sorry been gone so long. Haven't had time to check anything out. Anyway, as I was leaving this morning I tried to start the Boxster and as it was cranking the Tach didn't move at all. Does that mean it's the Crank position sensor? If so do I need to check anything else out or just replace it?
Thanks.
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10-28-2015, 06:45 AM
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#33
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Project Addicted
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 623
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It's about a 100$ part and if you can get under the car easily it is just 1 screw to remove it and then the plug. SO if you want to throw a prat at it, Parts Geek has them for $95:
1999-2002 Porsche 911 Reference Sensor - Bosch 0261210204 - - PartsGeek.com
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Jon
1966 912, 1976 911
1986 944, 2000 Boxster
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10-28-2015, 07:21 AM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,029
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Check for bent 'teeth'.If the CPS 'sees' a bent tooth ,it gets confused.
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10-28-2015, 08:51 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcslocum
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Not really looking to just throw parts at it, especially if its something else. I could be wrong but I don't think a bad crank sensor would cause no pressure in the fuel rail.
Unless that tach not moving is a definite sign that the crank sensor is bad.
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10-28-2015, 11:06 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,029
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"Unless that tach not moving is a definite sign that the crank sensor is bad. "
Classic CPS failure symptom.
Heat cycling causes failure so it is a good PM choice to replace.
Then move on to fuel issues.
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10-28-2015, 11:13 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelbster
"Unless that tach not moving is a definite sign that the crank sensor is bad. "
Classic CPS failure symptom.
Heat cycling causes failure so it is a good PM choice to replace.
Then move on to fuel issues.
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So there seems to be two different issues?
PM? (Sorry)
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10-28-2015, 11:18 AM
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: S.California
Posts: 2,029
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PM = Preventative Maintenance.
Keeping up with an M96 has to be a religion.
Pay homage with parts ,study and time. Shed blood and tears.
Ignore this at your peril.
Hell has no wrath nor expen$e like a badly maintained M96.
Last edited by Gelbster; 11-01-2015 at 06:23 AM.
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10-28-2015, 11:28 AM
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#39
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Project Addicted
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Posts: 623
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I "think" the CPS is what turns on the fuel pump for starting. It's a complicated sequence and dance performed by the computer, a number of things have to fall in place for there to be fire.
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Jon
1966 912, 1976 911
1986 944, 2000 Boxster
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11-01-2015, 04:40 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Long Island
Posts: 180
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So here is where I am.
Jumped the relay and still no pressure at the rail. Used multimeter to test to see if getting power at terminal 30 and I am getting 11.67 V at the terminal. So I am assuming the pump is bad since it is getting power and not working. Am I correct?
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