Skip the IMS??

[landrovered]

When I was young I believed that the outcome would be favorable. Now that I am older I plan on every possible outcome and I am never disappointed. Wait a few weeks for the part and then there is nothing left to chance.

[brjak]

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

[jsceash]

The worst part of this repair is pulling the trans and Flywheel, replace it now

[Pdwight]

I think I can detect a little clutch slippage sometimes, I will probably tackle a clutch change in the next two years (only drive the car 2K miles a year) and at that point I will for sure do the IMS bearing....I have time to pick the best method between now and then

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

[woodsman]

His car is worth almost twice what yours is and he can install the bearing himself. The vehicle's already apart- all he has to do is buy the bearing for something like $4-500(?). The car is easier to sell with it replaced and may be worth more as well. Also, few parts will cause destruction of a very expensive engine when and if it fails greatly increasing the risk of leaving the old one in.

[brjak]

For $400 i might do it. I'm just pointing out. there is a lot of hysteria surrounding the IMS situation. Most of it valid. But with that said. I am talking about the more robust dual row IMS. I would not buy a 01-05 Boxster or 911 because of that issue. but a 97 0r 98. I would roll the dice everytime. again, value of the car has to be taken into account. Just, don't get tunnel vision on the IMS and failure rates of said part.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by brjak

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

I think there are some things to clarify in this post -

1) I would be SHOCKED if a '97 could fetch anything north of $8k USD, but perhaps that is neither here nor there

2) $1500 - $2000: Isn't that a price if the trany is still IN the car? It is quite a bit cheaper if it is out, no?

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

[mikefocke]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

Other parts can go boom too and there goes your engine and your investment in any IMS. A simple accident in a car this old will take it down too.

So by adding 20% to its cost basis, you add how much to the probability that it will still be around in a few years? Do you increase the probability more than by changing the water pump?

Even at 10%, if the IMSs fail at 2% a year, is that still a good investment?

My point is that when these were $25k cars, the investment made obvious sense. But now? Does it still?

Maybe emotionally or for peace of mind.

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Dlirium

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...
.

Value of car is not reduced to zero. You could part the car out, or sell as a rolling chassis. Probably get 6-7kCDN. in essence without IMs and engine failure. value-7K. 11K car with 2K invested in an IMS replacement. Car value 11K. SO really the swing is roughly 3K on the car. Now saying that we are talking about a 97 Base boxster.

[78F350]

Originally Posted by brjak

Value of car is not reduced to zero. You could part the car out, or sell as a rolling chassis. Probably get 6-7kCDN. in essence without IMs and engine failure. value-7K. 11K car with 2K invested in an IMS replacement. Car value 11K. SO really the swing is roughly 3K on the car. Now saying that we are talking about a 97 Base boxster.

Even on the 97 Base, you should now consider it a maintenance item. Not an end all fix that will make the car last forever, or a reason to immediately stop driving and head to your nearest LN authorized repair shop. Clutch, suspension, tires, etc will all wear out. Most likely you will not let them go until there is a catastrophic failure.
Do the same for your IMS. When the clutch is replaced replace the bearing. Not that big an add-on if the other work is already being done.
I pulled the bearing on two '01 2.7s with about 125K miles. Both were intact dual row, but had lost the grease and had foul smelling oil within the IMS tube. It was just a matter of time (and probably not long) until they started started wearing through the finish on the bearings.

[Giller]

Originally Posted by brjak

Value of car is not reduced to zero. You could part the car out, or sell as a rolling chassis. Probably get 6-7kCDN. in essence without IMs and engine failure. value-7K. 11K car with 2K invested in an IMS replacement. Car value 11K. SO really the swing is roughly 3K on the car. Now saying that we are talking about a 97 Base boxster.

6-7?? For an old roller up here? No way. There just isn't much of a market here in Canada, and if you want to sell it down south, well, there are lots available, so supply vs. demand just isn't there. I'm guessing you don't have collision insurance on your car too? Or any life insurance?
IMS fix is really just insurance - odds are you will never ever use it, but it can be comforting to have. Especially for a car that sits, like most in Canada do over the winter.

[Rob175]

I recall reading it somewhere but I don't recall what years are affected (ie: single row vs. double row) with the IMS failure tendency. I own a beautiful 98 Boxster w/78,000 miles.

So does my year have a single or double row IMS?

Also, what's the average life of a clutch? I'm an "easy" driver/shifter and as far as I can tell the clutch on mine is working fine......just curious.

Thanks,
R

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

I didn't realize you had a dual row, but even a dual row will not last forever. Actually when they do fail they cause a lot more damage. I would not ignore replacing the IMS during a clutch job however.

Your mileage sounds pretty good, if the owners changed the oil at least annually you are probably in the clear until your clutch job.

As far as not wanting to spend X% of the car's value. While that sort of thinking sounds rational, it's still a $65K car as far as upkeep. The value of the car is almost irrelevant to the car's needs. If you intend to drive this car in the long-term, or drive it every day, you need to meet the car's needs. Otherwise what's the point of driving a world class sports car that will only have repairs done that represent only a minor part of its purchase price? The x% of car's value mentality really is for Hondas and Chevys.
If buying a $65K car that is out of warranty, requires expensive parts and specialized labor for ~$12-15K was good financial reasoning everyone would have a used Boxster or 996. A used Porsche is more like having swimsuit model for a girlfriend. If she stays around for long, your wallet will be a whole lot lighter.