Skip the IMS??

[Timco]

its been 2 months. Got trans case back. All put together. I can wait a couple more weeks and see if he can come to my shop and fit that in or just bag it until next clutch. 134k on clock.

I'd like to reassemble and get on the damn road.

T

[RedTele58]

Do it now. You're most of the way there with the tranny out.

Why not have the peace of mind?

[healthservices]

Nah they never go bad....

[j.fro]

When I had my trans out at 140k I was in the same situation. I passed on the IMS, and now 4 years later the car has 173k. 'Course, my car is a 2000 with dual row IMS.
Roll the dice...

[Porsche9]

Just was at my mechanics this week and he had just done three single row IMS bearings. Every single one was in the beginning stages of failure.

[Jamesp]

I'd change it, with a Nachi high temp full seal bearing, especially since yours is a single row. This bearing is a maintenance item even if Porsche didn't designate it as one, and when it fails, well we all know that story!

[KRAM36]

Originally Posted by RedTele58

Do it now. You're most of the way there with the tranny out.

Why not have the peace of mind?

Agreed. If my trans was out I would change it.

[landrovered]

When I was young I believed that the outcome would be favorable. Now that I am older I plan on every possible outcome and I am never disappointed. Wait a few weeks for the part and then there is nothing left to chance.

[brjak]

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

Am i missing something? the dual row/early boxsters have a less than 1% failure rate. With an 8% for single row IMS.

If someone came to you and said you have a 99+% chance nothing will go wrong, would you not save your money? and spend elsewhere?

Sorry, if I am alone feeling this way, but other items in the car probably have a higher failure rate. Yes everything will fail eventually.

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

[jsceash]

The worst part of this repair is pulling the trans and Flywheel, replace it now

[Pdwight]

I think I can detect a little clutch slippage sometimes, I will probably tackle a clutch change in the next two years (only drive the car 2K miles a year) and at that point I will for sure do the IMS bearing....I have time to pick the best method between now and then

[brjak]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

1. that figure is wrong in that an unknown number of failures were left out.
(I never rely on incomplete data, aka the Enron rule)
2. an actual figure that is accurate is impossible to nail down.


The IMSB failure rate is like guessing heads or tails based on the last 20 flips.
What the others experience has nothing to do with the current condition of your factory original IMSB.

An IMSB that was once 1% can jump to 70% due to host of maintenance and driving variables that changed abruptly. When those figures you cite were calculated the single row bearing fleet was still relatively low mileage as group. The IMSB is not a static issue. Every 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th owner maintained potentially different driving and maintenance habits. As the cars get cheaper less attention is given to the cars. Why is this relevant? Because a sealed bearing with no direct oil feeding it is on a timer. That timer speeds up if oil starvation or contamination is not mitigated during mileage intervals that are too long for the quality of oil used.

This is probably the simplest of all the possible engine failures to avoid. Or maybe replacing the water pump every 4-5 years. But the former can only be done when the trans is down which makes doing it a no-brainer.

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

[woodsman]

His car is worth almost twice what yours is and he can install the bearing himself. The vehicle's already apart- all he has to do is buy the bearing for something like $4-500(?). The car is easier to sell with it replaced and may be worth more as well. Also, few parts will cause destruction of a very expensive engine when and if it fails greatly increasing the risk of leaving the old one in.

[Dlirium]

Originally Posted by brjak

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

I think there are some things to clarify in this post -

1) I would be SHOCKED if a '97 could fetch anything north of $8k USD, but perhaps that is neither here nor there

2) $1500 - $2000: Isn't that a price if the trany is still IN the car? It is quite a bit cheaper if it is out, no?

3) If your IMS fails, the value of your car goes to just about $0. By putting in an IMS, for 20% of the value of the car, you ensure you can keep it a $11k (or whatever the correct price is). That is what we mean by insurance...

We all sort of have a big revolver with one bullet that we are spinning...at some point it will go boom.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by brjak

True the numbers are not static. But the information comes directly from the manufacture of the solution. IMS 101

I don't know the values through out the country, I am speaking of my car. 97, 78000miles. New to me. Value 11,000$(CDN). this car is mint with everything working appropriately. Now, average replacement cost is 1500-2000 up here in Canada.

So spend 20% the value of the car on item that is advertised at a 1% failure rate. Even if the failure rate increased 10 fold. The question is spend 20% value of the car for an item that has over a 90% success rate.

Yes I know its only matter of time before the item fails. But, that statement can be made for every single item on that car. We just focus on the IMS.

I didn't realize you had a dual row, but even a dual row will not last forever. Actually when they do fail they cause a lot more damage. I would not ignore replacing the IMS during a clutch job however.

Your mileage sounds pretty good, if the owners changed the oil at least annually you are probably in the clear until your clutch job.

As far as not wanting to spend X% of the car's value. While that sort of thinking sounds rational, it's still a $65K car as far as upkeep. The value of the car is almost irrelevant to the car's needs. If you intend to drive this car in the long-term, or drive it every day, you need to meet the car's needs. Otherwise what's the point of driving a world class sports car that will only have repairs done that represent only a minor part of its purchase price? The x% of car's value mentality really is for Hondas and Chevys.
If buying a $65K car that is out of warranty, requires expensive parts and specialized labor for ~$12-15K was good financial reasoning everyone would have a used Boxster or 996. A used Porsche is more like having swimsuit model for a girlfriend. If she stays around for long, your wallet will be a whole lot lighter.

[mikefocke]

Aside from money, what about the IMS replacement is going to delay you getting on the road? You said it would be weeks before the transmission would be reinstalled. You have time to determine which bearing is needed, what your replacement choice should be, order it, obtain the tools, study the instructions and do it.

~4 years ago, with single row engines that were up to 11 years old, the failure rate Porsche knew about was around 1% per year with surely more failing that were junked or repaired outside Porsche's knowledge. It is now ~4 years later than when those statistics were first presented to the courts. The average Boxster has gone through another owner in that time. And more miles and more unknown or undone maintenance. So the probability of a single row failure is much higher now but then again the probability of failure for all the parts is also higher.

So it comes down to are you willing to spend to fix this potential problem when all the other potential problems may, taken together, have a higher and increasing chance of taking out the engine before the IMS does?

As these cars become almost cheaper to replace than repair, this becomes a more difficult decision.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

[woodsman]

Originally Posted by Timco

its been 2 months. Got trans case back. All put together. I can wait a couple more weeks and see if he can come to my shop and fit that in or just bag it until next clutch. 134k on clock.
I'd like to reassemble and get on the damn road.
T

"Well punk, do you feel lucky? Do you...?"

Personally, I think it's cheap insurance to install a new super- bearing (ceramic).

[KRAM36]

If you're in the position as Timco is currently in, it's a no-brainer to me. The trans is out and he has a person to do the work. All he has to do is be patient.

For me, it's a $4,000 cost having the Tiptronic trans, I can't justify it.

[landrovered]

The pelican parts bearing is cheaper if money is an issue.