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[longislander1]

I tested the C6 before I bought my 987S. I was especially "impressed" with the crooked heads up display in the one I drove. That sent me a clear message about GM "quality." And the only thing you can do with 400hp or 505hp today is brag about it, unless you track the car. Each to his own, but I'll stick with Porsche, thank you.

[Brucelee]

"And the only thing you can do with 400hp or 505hp today is brag about it, unless you track the car. "

Huh? The same thing can be said for 258HP.

And we all love the Box. It is simply that Porsche should hear the footsteps coming.

And don't get us started on Porsche build quality, you see there are these RMS issues ..............................

[Jeph]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

It is simply that Porsche should hear the footsteps coming.

Because of the Z06?!?

[Perfectlap]

when the z06 trounces the 911 so bad it hurts the track cred of the brand as a whole. No debating that. They need to fix it quick.

the footsteps are also the CaymanS, the Hondas, and Audis who smell blood in the water.
How quickly things can change in only one model year.

[Jeph]

The Z06 is impressive. However...

I fail to see why a car with an engine TWICE THE SIZE as a Porsches' should send zee Germans back to the drawing boards. (Heck that engine is bigger than the Carrera GT's) Displacement is America's recipe for better numbers and terrific track times (and usually they're 1/4 miles). Enough of it will eventually beat even a Porsche.

Yeah yeah yeah, the Z06 is almost half as much. But I reiterate my contention that people that buy 911s aren't considering a Corvette as an alterternative option.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by Jeph

The Z06 is impressive.

But I reiterate my contention that people that buy 911s aren't considering a Corvette as an alterternative option.

The Z06 is impressive and anyone nitpicking interior or GM quality just goes to show how much attention it is really getting. Can't just dismiss this one as a GM stoplight rocket.

IMHO people buy Porsche cars because of performance and the name. The marketing of the name only goes so far. Consumers in the know will have a much harder time popping for a more expensive 911 and knowing it will get squarely trounced by every Z06 they meet on the street.

As my 986 is not a daily driver ( same for a 911 if I owned one ) the only area where the 911 has the advantage wouldn’t matter to me.

I surely wouldn’t be able to stand it having to pretend I don’t notice the vette next to me at a stoplight because it could be a Z06. Easy today as I can always fall back on the Z06 costs 50% more. What would I use to convince myself if I had a 911? “Porsche there is no Substitute …”?

Not only is it no performance contest but it does it at a cost point closer to that of the Porsche lowest priced models.

Porsche and the true believers may be poo-pooing the Z06 but I know that I am impressed and have been thinking about one. Especially because GM is now allowing employee discounting.

[Jeph]

Originally Posted by gRed04

Consumers in the know will have a much harder time popping for a more expensive 911 and knowing it will get squarely trounced by every Z06 they meet on the street.

True, if these consumers are race car drivers that spend most of their time on the track. Otherwise, I disagree. Who here could have purchased something faster than their Boxster? Probably all of us, right? These "in the know" consumers are "cost per option" or "dollars per second" shoppers. Clearly this consumer you describe is one that is buying the fastest car for the least amount of money. And if this is your priority, then the Chevy is the answer to your prayers. I don't think anyone should doubt that. But when has Porsche made "A Great Value" a priority?

By similar logic, why would anyone buy a BMW 530 knowing it will get squarely trounced by every a Chysler 300 Hemi they meet on the street?

Originally Posted by gRed04

Porsche and the true believers may be poo-pooing the Z06 but I know that I am impressed and have been thinking about one. Especially because GM is now allowing employee discounting.

Clearly, I am not poo-pooing the Z06. I just don't consider it a major threat to Porsche.

And if you think you're getting employee pricing on a Z06 anytime soon...

[longislander1]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

"And the only thing you can do with 400hp or 505hp today is brag about it, unless you track the car. "

Huh? The same thing can be said for 258HP.

And we all love the Box. It is simply that Porsche should hear the footsteps coming.

And don't get us started on Porsche build quality, you see there are these RMS issues ..............................

Maybe I travel in different circles, but I don't see anyone bragging about horsepower in the 200s, nor would I want less than the 276 in the 987S. The horsepower race is getting out of hand and unless you live in Montana or track the car, anything in the 400-500 or more range is simply ridiculous, unless you get off boasting to other people that yours is bigger than theirs.

I think Porsche should be more worried at the bottom end than the top, because the Boxster and Cayenne are the volume cars that pay the bills. There are plenty of other carmakers capable of replicating the performance of both of these models for less money.

As far as RMS goes, I can't comment because I haven't had any such problems with the two that I've owned. I do think that Porsche stinks at addressing those issues and their dealer service is spotty at best. Again, that's going to hurt them more at the bottom end because that's where they get their newer customers -- the ones who may be surprised to learn that -- for the same or more money -- they're not treated as well as they were at Lexus, etc.

[Perfectlap]

I think Bruce's point is that it matters not how much HP a car has as long as its enough for its weight. Take a trip to your local track and you'll se a ton of 150 HP Miatas.
500 HP is just as practical for the track as it is for streets.
You are aware that the VAST majority of Porsche owners never go near a track with their 250-400 HP cars? For street use that's more than enough power.

So a free breathing Boxster/911 is just as impractical as z06.

even if it feels funny cruising on the highway in 2nd gear

Believe me if these cars didn't run a $3 a gallon 93 octane I'd drive one everyday to the 7-11 or Starbucks.

[98Boxster98]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Believe me if these cars didn't run a $3 a gallon 93 octane I'd drive one everyday to the 7-11 or Starbucks.

All things considered, $3/gal gas is a cheap expense compared with my other Porsche ownership costs!

[Perfectlap]

that's too bad. Since buying this Boxster nearly two years/15K miles ago I haven't had to make a single repair. All maintenance.

[Brucelee]

"Yeah yeah yeah, the Z06 is almost half as much. But I reiterate my contention that people that buy 911s aren't considering a Corvette as an alterternative option."
__________________




As a 911 re-seller, I can tell you that you are dead wrong on this score.

[Jeph]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

As a 911 re-seller, I can tell you that you are dead wrong on this score.

I'm talking about cars being purchased from the showroom. Used cars are a different ballgame Brucelee. Neither Porsche nor Chevy directly benefits from used car transactions. (Like buying a CD from Walmart vs. buying a cd from a used CD store. The artist doesn't make any money one the latter.)

Sure, there will be people out there debating between an 02 911 Turbo and an 06 Z06. But I'm trying to keep things "apples to apples" by comparing new cars to new cars.

[JackG]

Before I bought my Boxster, I considered some other cars, including the Corvette. I just couldn't get over the notion of paying that much for a Chevy.

Corvettes may have good performance, but they are a dime-a-dozen, and seemingly driven mostly by women in this area. No thanks.

[gRed04]

Originally Posted by Jeph

And if you think you're getting employee pricing on a Z06 anytime soon...

Hi Jeph,

I could already get employee discounts about 2 months ago. That was the last time I checked.

Anyone who has access to the restricted GM employee dealer inventory website can get a discounted Z06 in five minutes.

This was for employee discounts off of dealer inventory, which isn't as great as the discount you get on a factory order. IIRC I saw a couple I could take immediately in the upper 50's.

[Jeph]

Holy smokes! I have to concede from this debate. You guys would not believe how much this topic has been on my mind! That shouldn't be so.

So, inconclusion...
I love Porsche.
I love the Z06.
I love you all!

Well then, how 'bout them K&N filters...

[Brucelee]

I will expand. Since I deal in very late model used cars and am in constant contact with the local Porsche dealer, I can tell you that cars like the new Corvette (both the regular C6 and the ZO6) ARE attracting potential buyers who would be looking at new Boxsters and 911s.

Look at the value prop of the base C6 at about $45K out the door vs. a 911 coupe at say $75K.

Frankly, the base C6 is faster, handles better, is safer, and has more "options" as standard equipment vs the 911. Oh, and I can drop some golf bags in the hatch of the C6.

The Porsche management types will ignore this type of value issue at their own peril.

IMHO!

Originally Posted by Jeph

I'm talking about cars being purchased from the showroom. Used cars are a different ballgame Brucelee. Neither Porsche nor Chevy directly benefits from used car transactions. (Like buying a CD from Walmart vs. buying a cd from a used CD store. The artist doesn't make any money one the latter.)

Sure, there will be people out there debating between an 02 911 Turbo and an 06 Z06. But I'm trying to keep things "apples to apples" by comparing new cars to new cars.

[Patto]

Interesting thread, anyone have a scan of the CaymanS vs 911 article?

For the record a used Corvette C5 in Oz is more expensive than a new Boxter S.

[Perfectlap]

Bruce are you aware that your company's URL is not hyperlinked?

www.belloffmotorworks.citymaker.com

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Bruce are you aware that your company's URL is not hyperlinked?

www.belloffmotorworks.citymaker.com

I just tried it and it seemed to work? Am I understanding you correctly?

Thanks