Question about pricing on 2005 leftovers - Page 2 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Brucelee · 04-23-2006, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach schnell

thanks rich

You bet!

Brucelee · 04-23-2006, 06:23 PM

I never implied that this negotiation process was pristine on the dealer side. What I was trying to illustrate was a process where you could side step this nonsense by acting differently.

Face it, SOME customers and SOME dealers simply out and out lie to each other. Neither side wins in this process and usually, neither one actually ends up making the deal.

If you go back to my post, I am suggesting that you actually articulate what you are willing to pay for the car and why, and that you not make up an absurd number. That is actually what some dealers do, in hopes that some duncecap will pay it. Base YOUR number in reality and make an offer on a car you actually want.

By simply articulating what you are willing to pay and why, you simply END THE GAME.

Then go home and wait. If you made the same offer to 5 dealers and no one took it, then you have some legitimate feedback that this was the wrong offer.

If one took the offer, you have feedback that, you have a car and the other 4 dealers want more money. That makes you a good negotiator.

How is this bad advice?

Brucelee · 04-23-2006, 06:27 PM

Keep your shirt on and lets keep talking!

I never implied that this negotiation process was pristine on the dealer side. What I was trying to illustrate was a process where you could side step this nonsense by acting differently.

Face it, SOME customers and SOME dealers simply out and out lie to each other. Neither side wins in this process and usually, neither one actually ends up making the deal.

If you go back to my post, I am suggesting that you actually articulate what you are willing to pay for the car and why, and that you not make up an absurd number. That is actually what some dealers do, in hopes that some duncecap will pay it. Base YOUR number in reality and make an offer on a car you actually want.

By simply articulating what you are willing to pay and why, you simply END THE GAME.

Then go home and wait. If you made the same offer to 5 dealers and no one took it, then you have some legitimate feedback that this was the wrong offer.

If one took the offer, you have feedback that, you have a car and the other 4 dealers want more money. That makes you a good negotiator.

How is this bad advice?

By the way, dealer 3 is the dealer to deal with, an approach that I take on ALL my vehicles.

Surprisingly, some customers cannot deal with that approach and are still looking for my REAL number.

Go figure!
__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverpete

In some strange way I get where you are coming from - but I still think the current way of buying cars is absolute crap.

You want me to make a REAL and FAIR offer? Why the hell isn't the vehicle priced REAL and FAIRLY to begin with? Why should my negotiating skill or ability to impress some salesman impact my car value? Why should I have FIND that "dealer number"? Why should I have to show him a REAL offer in my region? If I don't do these things I get screwed? That may be the "way it is" - but it's still crap!

I bought a car for my wife this weekend. I spent a few day researching vehicles and then visited 3 dealers and let each dealer know that for the right price I'll buy the car on the spot. My first dealer offered a vehicle $2500-3500 above anything in the market. After we looked over the car and my wife took it for a drive I asked "what's the lowest price you'd let this go for". I got the "well, the price is on the window - once that's on there - it's pretty much what they are willing to let it go for - but, you know, everything is negotiable." My wife looked at me and knew we weren't buying from this doofus. When I pointed out that his price was way out of line with similar vehicles - I got a repeat of his spiel. As I was leaving he approached my Box and asked for our number, "you know, in case we can make a better deal".

We hit another dealer. I went through the same spiel. He came down in price - but was still way out of line for the vehicle. I told him what I'd take it for and I got the old "that's what we bought it for - my manager will laugh at me - I can sell these all day".... Take your pick. I didn't want to hang around while he "went to bat for me with the manager". I walked.

The next dealer we hit already had the vehicle priced right. He wasn't interested in any negotiations since the vehicle was already a great value (about $5000.00 less than the other dealers and spot on for regional value, mileage, and condition). I purchased the vehicle on the spot contigent upon a mechanic inspection and a new stereo (which my wife gets to pick out).

I think it's interesting that you don't condone the "tactics" listed below - but we as customers have to deal with all the dealer tactics. And let me tell you, I've seen 'em all! Dealers over emphasize the positives (and I use that loosely) of their vehicles - but it's not okay for us to point out the negatives? What's up with that? Play down the poor condition of the purchase vehicle - but make a stink about a tiny scratch on my trade in? Take my keys. Move my car. Run my credit when I tell you I have outside financing....

Yeah - we're the ones who are dishonest.

I mean - IMHO!

denverpete · 04-23-2006, 07:09 PM

Okay - fair enough. It's good advice about a game we're forced to play. My point is that it's a stupid game we shouldn't have to play. Explaining the rules doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

wvick · 04-23-2006, 08:04 PM

You should be able to pick up a 2005 model at dealer invoice, or slightly below, and and negotiate a few extras . I recently purchased a new 05 987S for invoice plus a wheel upgrade to 19" Carrera Classics and a factory short shifter installed by the dealer. I was looking at other models at other dealerships and the dealer new it. As a matter of fact, the Boxster was not my first choice but he gave me a deal I could not walk away from. I love the car and know I got a square deal. Boxster sales are slow since the new Cayman arrived. The dealer would be crazy not to sell it at invoice or below.

Brucelee · 04-24-2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverpete

Okay - fair enough. It's good advice about a game we're forced to play. My point is that it's a stupid game we shouldn't have to play. Explaining the rules doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

There are dealers and car lines that have tried the "one price" approach to selling price. Normally, this has failed as the market has rejected there being one price. Both sides have developed an expectation that the first price is not the real price.

Personally, I set a very fair and market based price for my Porsches but still find buyers asking me

"what is your real price?"

That is frustrating and so, now, I normally build just a bit into the price so that they can feel they have "negotiated" a good price. Silly game but it seems to be wanted and so I do it.

For some customers, this process is quite an ego boost. This is especially true when a guy brings his woman in with him. Man, you should see the strutting going on there.

"Honey, watch me drop this deaer!"

Fact is, these guys usually have no negotiating skills. How good do they feel when they leave without the car she wants?

Such is life!

denverpete · 04-24-2006, 07:02 AM

I see where you are coming from. If you set a rock-bottom price you have no negotiating room which then ironically makes it look like you're dishonest or difficult because you won't negotiate.

Silly game indeed.

I particularly liked the visual of the man shopping with the woman.

Unfortunately, while many men don't have good negotiating skills - most women definately don't. That's perhaps too blanket of a statement, but it's one that I'll stick with from my own personal observations.

I know for a fact that my wife got hosed on her last car (bought before we met). I'm also pretty sure she would have gotten taken on this last car we bought if I wasn't there (she would have bought the overpriced crap). The thing is, she's an incredibly bright and capable person. She knows a good deal when she sees it and she knows when she's being screwed with..... Except with cars.

Brucelee · 04-24-2006, 08:46 AM

"Unfortunately, while many men don't have good negotiating skills - most women definately don't. That's perhaps too blanket of a statement, but it's one that I'll stick with from my own personal observations.

I know for a fact that my wife got hosed on her last car (bought before we met). I'm also pretty sure she would have gotten taken on this last car we bought if I wasn't there (she would have bought the overpriced crap). The thing is, she's an incredibly bright and capable person. She knows a good deal when she sees it and she knows when she's being screwed with..... Except with cars."

Yes, my experience concurs with yours.

And yes, IT IS A SILLY GAME!!!!!!!

asnigro · 04-24-2006, 10:36 AM

Excellent info guys, I really enjoy this thread as I am planning on doing this same thing for the 2006's soon.

I really got a lot from the MS Excel sheet recommended at carbuyingtips.com. I wonder if it would be benificial to bring a printout of this "homework" so they know where you are coming from with your offer (or does this wonly work on vehicles not a year old?).

Once it is understood where the the buyers info is coming from, whats left? Negotiating on how much commission the dealership is going to be taking in? What is fair in this department? $500? $1000? A percentage of the selling price? What are dealerships looking to make on a vehicle that is a year old and being pushed out by the next years model?

pbadss · 04-24-2006, 11:01 AM

Thanks for the tips! I'll try for 9k off MSRP and see what I can get. I'm thinking it will be tough now that summer is rolling around, even if it is SoCal.

For the same price, would you rather get a new '05 or a slightly used '05 CPO. The 100k warranty on the CPO sounds good too.

der Geist · 04-24-2006, 02:33 PM

It is a HORRIBLY silly game. The dealer is there to make a profit like all businesses and he is going to shake whatever he can out of you. 2 years ago I bought a truck on my wife's "friends and family" discount and the dealer still tried to add on all kinds of stuff to boost the margin. He even tried to postpone delivery until the next month because he knew the deal would be better for him. It ended up being an all day affair even though I was quite insistent on just wanting a stripped down basic pickup!!! I bought my Boxster from a dealer on eBay and it was the best buying experience of my life (except for the $2500 I paid for my '69 911). I saved more than 25% on an 03 compared to what my local (all 3) dealers are selling cars with similar years/mileage. It was well worth the 45 minute flight to get a great car at a good price. Plus I got to do an 11 hour ride home in the new Box. Do your research well and don't be afraid to push the dealer for as much as yopu can. Believe me-they are looking to get as much as they can out of you. As my last boss used to say "the worst they can tell you is no". At the end of the day they want your money and if they want your money more than you want the car you'll get a fair deal. Remember-the one with the money holds all the cards. I actually had one dealer holding onto the side of my car as I was pulling out of the lot. Very funny stuff. Take your time, do the research and buy off season if you can. It also helps to wait until the end of the month in case the salesman may be a little anxious to meet his sales goal.