RIP Paul Walker - killed in a CGT's passenger seat

[Perfectlap]

but wouldn't this fairly routine data collected from Porsches already be out there though? I'm no race engineer but I'm thinking privateers must need access to equally if not more in depth telemetry than what would be needed in a road car traveling under triple digits. Or do the privateers have to install third party data-logging hardware for every relevant element..braking, acceleration, g's, throttle, etc. without any access to the onboard stuff rom Porsche? I guess these would be a good question for BGB who raced without factory support.

At any rate if the data Porsche used is too complicated to show and far too proprietary, then that sounds like it wasn't a simple matter of seeing a printout that showed the speed at impact but actually involved some guesstimating by Porsche in order to arrive at the 100+ mph figure.

[BYprodriver]

I'm guessing Porsche wanted these facts to be revealed & properly translated into English layman's terms.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

but wouldn't this fairly routine data collected from Porsches already be out there though? I'm no race engineer but I'm thinking privateers must need access to equally if not more in depth telemetry than what would be needed in a road car traveling under triple digits. Or do the privateers have to install third party data-logging hardware for every relevant element..braking, acceleration, g's, throttle, etc. without any access to the onboard stuff rom Porsche? I guess these would be a good question for BGB who raced without factory support.

At any rate if the data Porsche used is too complicated to show and far too proprietary, then that sounds like it wasn't a simple matter of seeing a printout that showed the speed at impact but actually involved some guesstimating by Porsche in order to arrive at the 100+ mph figure.

Here are the basics of automotive event data recorders; Event data recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And here is Toyota's official press release on the subject; Toyota Clarifies the Facts About Event Data Recorders | Corporate

And here is a good Road & Track overview; Event Data Recorders - Road & Track

Since the EDR only operates in an accident situation, it is not useful for racing data analysis. Instead, privateer's spend a lot of money on third party data collection and recording systems. Usually this means collecting some data from the ODBII or CANBUS on the car, having a GPS subsystem (position and speed and g's), and adding individual transducers for measuring things like braking, throttle, etc. These data logging systems can be quite expensive.

[stephen wilson]

You're comparing apples to oranges, race cars rarely have trees and poles to hit. I can't imagine engineering a car to make 100+ MPH impacts with a tree, on the driver's door, survivable.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

You're comparing apples to oranges, race cars rarely have trees and poles to hit. I can't imagine engineering a car to make 100+ MPH impacts with a tree, on the driver's door, survivable.

Agreed. Give it a break. Our 986 would be AWFUL in the same accident. Gas tank right over your knees?

It's not the fault of Porsche or the car that some dip**************** hot shot drove too fast for city streets. Privilege? Can anyone here imagine driving ANY car 100+mph on that street? Are you going to tell me that 600 hp sent him from 35 to 100+ by accident?

He was being reckless. Get over it. Porsche didn't make the highway safety standards, they just met them.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

You're comparing apples to oranges, race cars rarely have trees and poles to hit. I can't imagine engineering a car to make 100+ MPH impacts with a tree, on the driver's door, survivable.

I think you misread my post, I'm not talking about the crash worthiness or side impact protection. I'm talking about how quickly this car caught fire.

Originally Posted by Timco

Our 986 would be AWFUL in the same accident. Gas tank right over your knees?

would be? Our 986 has ALREADY been destroyed in countelss numbers of incidents very similar to this one where someone put it into a pole, tree, wall or even off a bridge in one incident I recall. Auto wrecker sites are full of pictures of mangled Boxsters that look like crumpled sardine cans impacted from every possible side, rollovers, etc. all with full gas tanks.
Yet after nearly a decade on this forum and others I can't think of one incident where a 986 charbroiled the occupants, let alone within 1 to 2 minutes after the impact..

And I'm not sure why you're conflating the issue of responsibility for the accident, with the merits or weakpoints of this car following a crash. They are two separate discussions. Whether a car spins out of control because of driver error or equipment failure, is not germaine to this second issue of how prone this car is to explosion and fire.

[Timco]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

I think you misread my post, I'm not talking about the crash worthiness or side impact protection. I'm talking about how quickly this car caught fire.



would be? Our 986 has ALREADY been destroyed in countelss numbers of incidents very similar to this one where someone put it into a pole, tree, wall or even off a bridge in one incident I recall. Auto wrecker sites are full of pictures of mangled Boxsters that look like crumpled sardine cans impacted from every possible side, rollovers, etc. all with full gas tanks.
Yet after nearly a decade on this forum and others I can't think of one incident where a 986 charbroiled the occupants, let alone within 1 to 2 minutes after the impact..

And I'm not sure why you're conflating the issue of responsibility for the accident, with the merits or weakpoints of this car following a crash. They are two separate discussions. Whether a car spins out of control because of driver error or equipment failure, is not germaine to this second issue of how prone this car is to explosion and fire.

Countless incidents. But yet you own one?? Has every CGT caught fire? Do they all get driven in an unsafe and irresponsible manner?

No car at speed limit on city streets catches fire. If this guy had been driving even double speed limit, they may be here.

Speculate all we like, but his reckless driving caused his vehicle to loose control. This incident alone does not show a safety flaw because it's so far outside a typical crash.

There's no denying the driver / speed were primarily at fault. Feel free to speculate beyond those facts all you like.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Timco

Countless incidents. But yet you own one?? Has every CGT caught fire? Do they all get driven in an unsafe and irresponsible manner?

No car at speed limit on city streets catches fire. If this guy had been driving even double speed limit, they may be here.

Speculate all we like, but his reckless driving caused his vehicle to loose control. This incident alone does not show a safety flaw because it's so far outside a typical crash.

There's no denying the driver / speed were primarily at fault. Feel free to speculate beyond those facts all you like.

I don't think it is "so far outside a typical crash."
You mean it never once occurred to the engineers that this street car made for the track might see high speeds whether on the street or track? Im not arguing the impact damage, but the fact that it so readily burst into flames on a frontal impact when the engine is behind the driver. (NOt sure where the fuel is held)
There are many crashes just like that at comparable speeds that the CGT was going. Look under Viper crashes, 911 crashes, Vette crashes, etc....its all there.
Don't misunderstand, Im not saying the cause of death wasn't driver error in all likelihood, just that cars shouldn't burst into flames either.
Being the CGT was produced in such small numbers, its hard to determine if this was an anomaly or if the car is prone to bursting into flames upon collisions.
Pretty sure autopsy showed the driver died on impact and Paul was in bad shape, IDK.