Show or Go?

[recycledsixtie]

You are obviously attached emotionally to this car. The project you have in mind with larger engine sounds very ambitious and expensive. Figure out carefully how much it costs to put in a larger engine. To me it seems overly ambitious when you can get an s model with a larger engine already installed. However it is your decision. If it was me I would fix up the your current ride and sell it and buy an s. However it seems like you like fixing......

[Perfectlap]

by the way, mind sharing what you estimate this project to run? Including the car itself of course.

Here's what I spent on exterior mods. I'll include the wheels here since you can't really do aero while leaving the 17" stockers in place.


$2,100 factory Carreras.
$1,100 RA-1
$1,000 GT3 factory front bumper
$700 GT3.2 aftermarket skirting
$350 Boxster Spyder aftermarket rear clip
$2,000 GT3 seats
$1,400 Litronics.

^ About $9K and that's with some excellent pricing on a few items that have gone up considerably since. Today these exterior mods would probably cost you $12-$14,000 or equal the cost of buying a Boxster S.
Mind you, this before we add the Fabspeed exhaust, new shocks, painted/carbon fiber interior mods, and addressing the 13 year old canvas...

You seem to be committed to the roadster concept. I don't think this is so much a question about which to do first, exterior or engine, but instead the question seems to be is modding an old water-cooled Pcar the best route to take with the level of investment you're probably looking at once all the work has been done. Not to mention the time.
Personally, I'd save up for a Boxster Spyder. For me that's the last great Porsche roadster, still the lightest, rawest, most powerful/best chasis that can be had with non-electric steering, and simply the most driver-oriented. It will be a while before they're into the $40K range but you won't be far from that with this project once you factor in major maintenance as well.

People often say "they think I'm rich because I drive a 10 year old Porsche. Little do they know they're new Accord cost more". I kind of laugh when I hear that because a 10 year old Porsche's cost of long-term ownership is enough to buy a few Accords. Or I could simply show them the invoices from Indy...and his rates are the best. Close inspection reveals little of those tabs were labor, mostly parts.

[Crono0001]

For aesthetic exterior mods, I plan to spend about 10k:

Front bumper + LED lights - $2500
Stock OEM rear bumper (mine is screwed up) - $300
Rear diffuser - $200
Side skirts - $300
Aerowing - $350
Paint/Dent body refinish - $2800

Total Aesthetic: $6450




For interior, the shop came up with this list:
Rebuild 3.2 block into 3.6L engine with custom pistons and install in car - $1,000.00
Bore and sleeve block to 3.6L iron sleeves - $2,400.00
Custom JE pistons with - $2,000.00
Engine gasket set (less head gaskets) - $432.48
Rod bearing - $96.00
Cylinder head gasket - $86.72
Knife-edge and rebalance crankshaft - $595.00
996 (earlyM96-04) main bearing shells - $118.80
Timing chain guide rail (crank) - $35.25
Replacement rails for chain drive - $79.10
Custom ECU chip - $1,100.00
IMS - $530

Total engine mods: - $8,468

This doesn't include everything I've already done/have on the way/have yet to install

GPS system
LED HID Projector headlights
Bilstein PSS9s
986S brakes
3rd radiator

The 3.2 that they're working on has also been purchased by me for $2,000

They're also considering buying my 2.5... I can't very well take it home with me


I'm currently running Michelin Pilots on my 18" stock turbo twists. I will get 19's eventually, but my 18's do well.



I plan to complete this project within 2 years

[Perfectlap]

$2K for 3.2 engine? How many miles are on it?

Have you priced the Raby engines? Sounds like you're going to be over $11K into the engine with your current approach.

[Coffinhunter]

Without seeing a picture, I am not sure what would be best. If the car just looks "dated" then go with the engine first. If the body looks like crap, then get the body done.

I know it is not the same, but I compare it too the guys who put $5,000 stereo systems in their cars that look like they are worth $500. Or a ricer that has the exhaust, spoiler, rims etc., but three different colors of paint and a bondo'd door.

[Crono0001]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

$2K for 3.2 engine? How many miles are on it?

Have you priced the Raby engines? Sounds like you're going to be over $11K into the engine with your current approach.

I've had extensive talks with Raby and BRoberts. Unfortunately, Raby does not do anything for base model 2.5s
11k sounds exactly what I planned for. The engine was sub-50k (don't remember exactly, will find out.)

Pictures of my car can be found around. It's not bad, but it's not immaculate either. It's what you expect a 10 year old car to look like.
I've already concluded I'm going performance first.

[Perfectlap]

Has the shop doing the 3.2 to 3.4 rebuild dyno'd the end result before?

[BrokenLinkage]

PL is obviously a sports car enthusiast who found a 986 at his nexus of needs at a certain point in his life.
Crono sounds like a 986 enthusiast who is somewhat married to his car, for whatever reasons of emotions vs practicality.
I am with you Crono, I too drank the 986 coolaid. My funmobile budget was for about $10K more than I spent at initial purchase, which would have easily put me into a 987 or 996. But I liked my 986 better, and had a little left over to do some tweaking. The engineer in me likes the midengine. The artist and lover in me likes that sexy body and sweet color combo I got, which btw, is to my eye, muuuch nicer than the alternatives available then (981 wasn't out). The consumer in me likes getting a highly optioned mid-$70K in very good shape for less than $15K. And being able to feel the road, drop the top, carve up the road, and get some vitamin D while listening to a symphonic engine note... well I'm very pleased with my car. I didn't buy it to resell, trade-up, or cash in my insurance with a wreck. It is an indulgence for me, one of relatively few. I accept the risk of losing money. In fact, as PL pointed out, it is a virtual certainly that I will lose money just maintaining the thing. So the question becomes how to lose it in a way that brings me pleasure.
I suspect this is where Crono is at. There is a certain pleasure that also comes from seeing potential and carefully developing that potential to unlock it, especially if this adds to a unique and superior experience. And a more mature pleasure that comes from learning the nuances -both good and bad- of a car with which one has experience over time. You can't do this by changing models frequently, it is like tossing out the body of experience, muscle memory, threat awareness, etc, that has built up subconsciously with your car. Not unlike with my wife
Now back to the question: Looking at my car makes me want to drive it. I am not very anal by Porsche standards about my ride. But if the lack of show dampens your enthusiasm, then you have purchased less pleasure for your buck and may be less motivated to enjoy your car and to spend on your car in other areas. A seriously ugly car can limit how you use it. I will always want more go, but realistically, unless I decide to start racing it is not a limiting factor in my fun, b/c I just can't give this thing a proper workout on public roads without risking jail time.
So I would say 1) power to you 2) if the "show" ever keeps it parked, then address this first 3) if not, it is more practical to handle the "go" first.

[Crono0001]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

Has the shop doing the 3.2 to 3.4 rebuild dyno'd the end result before?

They have. They said they've built some racecars, and this isn't the first 3.2 to 3.6 conversion they've done on a non e-gas Boxster. Kravig Precision Motion is the company, and they claim I'll be pushing 350hp. They fix my brother's 996TT from time to time, and they seem to do good business. I'll be driving all the way to California to have it done.

I'm glad I'm not the only one out there with this kind of mindset. I don't want a Boxster Spyder. I don't want a 911. I want a 986 Boxster that is unique to me, built so that I know everything that's in it, and can still give any of those cars a run for its money. And, at the rate I'm going, it'll be less than a Boxster Spyder at the cost of some fresher parts and OEM designing... but I'm okay with that. Any rich boy can go out and buy a Boxster Spyder. My car, like the Dangermobile, Jaay's black 3.4, Wing02nut, or 986rgt, will be one of a kind.

I could be a complete idiot, but we'll see how it all turns out.

[CoBeerToad]

Originally Posted by Crono0001

I could be a complete idiot, but we'll see how it all turns out.

That's what I tell all my friends. Choosing to purchase my Boxster was the best and worst decision of my life...

At least until I get married. Then we will have a new winner to the best and worst decision ever.

[thstone]

Crono - Keep on, keepin' on brother! I've always thought in these terms: Corners first (tires, wheels, suspension, learn to drive), then straights (power), then paddock (looks).

Finish up the mechanical mods and then turn your efforts to the looks.

[woodsman]

I think a strong ,common drive amongst us is the one to 'build for me' instead of settle for something 'built for many'. Before buying my first Porsche I spent 12 years restoring and customizing 2 vehicles and I know the feeling of driving something I built myself -knowing wrench sizes by memory ,knowing the best OEM mods from other years and ways to do things most economicly. But I've grown weary and have come to realize that Porsche and BMW can do it better than I can. I want a Spyder, TT or GT3. Add coilovers and wam I'm done! I understand the urge to 'build your own' and all I can say is GO FOR IT!
And, buying my 986 S was the most satisfying purchase I've made.

[Overdrive]

I think mechanical is the way to go to start. You're asking for opinions, so you're sure getting them, but I think that's the most sound.

I think your use of the word "dated" may be throwing some people off, where they're thinking old-school style that looks like it belongs in a different era, but you mean the car looks worn out/weathered. Did I get that right?

Anyway, you can spend to the moon making the car pretty, but since you want it to be able to go somewhere in a hurry and stop even faster so you can put your flaming hair out, I think it makes sense to get all of the mechanical stuff situated before you start turning it into an aesthetic pleasure (aside from sweet engine/exhaust sound, which comes with the mechanical work and makes a good argument for me ripping out the stereo and telling passengers to shut up).

I know what you mean about the college folks who seem to only focus on looks, or looks before performance. I have to deal with plenty of them myself, but they don't seem to think I'm off my rocker for wanting to focus on making sure my car is mechanically sound before I even bother touching the body. It's not a brand new car that needs nothing. It's a 15-year-old car that needs plenty, but still drives well. You only see the imperfections when you get close enough. From a distance and passing by on the road it looks great, and I'm always more concerned with how it handles and drives than how it looks...though I'll admit to a bit of mental anguish when it's extremely filthy. But hey, at the most I get to see the tops of the fenders through the windshield, and the very top front edges of the rear quarters when the top is down. It's not as important to me as what I'm touching, hearing, and feeling while I drive.

[Johnny Danger]

Just slide your Johnny Danger Action Suite CD into the player and let the mojo take you away !!

[Dr.Strangepork]

Originally Posted by Crono0001

You guys bring up another issue that I've been condemned for by many car enthusiasts and friends a like.

Why spend $20k when I could easily spend that money and get a 987 or something.

... and to be honest, I can't really give a good answer, other than the fact that I am completely in love with my 986. And I'd rather spend that money and have the best 986 on the street than just a regular 911. Besides, my brother already has a 996TT- I'd be a copycat if I got one, and I've been copying him my whole life

Why not buy $20,000 worth of track events? Imagine how good you'd get at driving. Can't buy that mod!

[Crono0001]

Originally Posted by Dr.Strangepork

Why not buy $20,000 worth of track events? Imagine how good you'd get at driving. Can't buy that mod!

Funds are mutually exclusive

[Troutman]

I think you are also wanting to do some major work on your own car so when you take it out for the first time your smile will be wide and you get that amazing feeling of achievement which you don't if you go out and buy a GT3.
I can see that..I did bore work on a Triumph bike I had and it transformed the bike no end..it felt good.

But Porsche make very good cars and improving them at this level is expensive and difficult.
I suggest you look out for a low mileage, babied 986/7 S with a blown engine and transfer your engine into that.
That way no cost of body work and no brake/suspension upgrades, just a brilliant useable car that will blow most other cars to bits.

Good luck what ever you do.