I don't get it....

[thstone]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Come on guys, you really shouldn't feel emasculated by a technological development that make car both faster and more consistent. How many of you have actually driven one, particularly a high HP car like the Turbo? They really are a delight to drive at the limit.

I really don't care what other think about what I drive or race, only that it is the quickest out there....

I have to respectfully disagree. Driven PDK on both street and track and I hate them. Even with the paddles you might as well just put it in Auto and get on the cell phone and let the car do the work for you.

Looking forward, a fully robotic car that requires no human driver and is faster than any human isn't far off. I'll hate that even more.

The deal is, I came to drive, not spectate while the computer drives for me.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by thstone

I have to respectfully disagree. Driven PDK on both street and track and I hate them. Even with the paddles you might as well just put it in Auto and get on the cell phone and let the car do the work for you.

Looking forward, a fully robotic car that requires no human driver and is faster than any human isn't far off. I'll hate that even more.

The deal is, I came to drive, not spectate while the computer drives for me.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But like many of the Porsche factory drivers, I really think the PDK will improve the lap times for many, if not all but the most adept track drivers.

I just spent some time in a two week old 458 Italia Spyder on some twisty back roads, the Ferrari equivalent of the PDK made the experience of driving a powerful but unfamiliar car an absolute joy. And as in the case of the PDK, in the manual mode you still have the full sense of car control, just handled differently than a shifter handle in your right hand.

What I have never understood are those that say the new technology is somehow "effeminate". On another website, some posters actually chided someone ordering a new car with the PDK to get the car in the color pink to show what a pansy he was for not ordering a "manly" transmission. It is just a different technology that in some cases, such as those without the use of all their limbs, or those that are not proficient with a clutch pedal and shifter to enjoy a performance based car. I really don't see choosing a PDK so your better half can also enjoy the car as endangering your masculinity.

[Porsche Chick]

This again?

Hey, don't Formula 1 cars use a transmission very similar to PDK? Somebody decode this for me and tell me if it's similar (sounds like it to me):

Formula One cars use semi-automatic sequential gearboxes, with regulations stating that 7 forward gears and 1 reverse gear must be used, with rear-wheel drive.The gearbox is constructed of carbon titanium, as heat dissipation is a critical issue, and is bolted onto the back of the engine Full automatic gearboxes, and systems such as launch control and traction control, are illegal, to keep driver skill important in controlling the car.The driver initiates gear changes using paddles mounted on the back of the steering wheel and electro-hydraulics perform the actual change as well as throttle control. Clutch control is also performed electro-hydraulically, except to and from a standstill, when the driver operates the clutch using a lever mounted on the back of the steering wheel.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by Porsche Chick

Hey, don't Formula 1 cars use a transmission very similar to PDK?

F1 cars are also automatic. That's why the races have become stunningly boring since the golden years of Senna/Prost/Piquet/Mansell when there was an actual gear lever. Do a Google search of Senna doing a lap around Monaco with one hand on the steering wheel at insane speeds. Getting past backmarkers without so much as a twitch or loss a sliver of a second on his pole time. Insane skill.

Today it's another story. 19 year olds like Vettel with barely any experience are winning races. By 21 they are World Champions. I remember an interview with Williams BMW F1 technical director Patrick Head where he stated that then driver Ralf Schumacher did none of his shifting (because of the paddles), fully automatic F1 car, where the other driver Juan Pablo Montoya did his own downshifts. Montoya was generally quicker, had at least 1 podium finish for every three races he started, stealing nearly 8 pole positions in a single season from Michael Schumacher in the faster Ferrari. But now the story is probably different since the software has improved so much that the driver is always slower than the computer. Even as recently as the first PDK Cayman there was noticeable lag in shfits that's entirely gone now.

[stephen wilson]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

19 year olds like Vettel with barely any experience are winning races.

Vettel is no stranger to racing or winning, starting in carts at 3 1/2, and winning 18 of 20 Formula BMW races in '04. He may be young, but he has serious talent. And they don't shift automatically, you still have to use the paddles to request a shift.

Porsche chick, The F1 gearboxes are not constructed the same as a PDK, they're not a double-clutch box, but more similar to a motorcycle box.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Vettel is no stranger to racing or winning, starting in carts at 3 1/2, and winning 18 of 20 Formula BMW races in '04. He may be young, but he has serious talent. And they don't shift automatically, you still have to use the paddles to request a shift..

no disrespect to Vettel but Formula BMW is hardly the equivalent of F2 (or whatever new name they are using this week). It had neither the depth of talent of GP2 nor the technicality. I'm not sure if it was Gerhard Berger who said this but he was present at the F1 test drive in the Williams BMW (typically the prize for the junior Formula BMW series winner) when Piquet Jr. and Rossberg Jr. were testing. He commented how in the very first test day these two highly inexperienced teen aged drivers were coming within seconds of the lap times set by the full time F1 test driver. In his view this would have been utterly impossible in the 70's, 80's and early 90's. Clearly the cars have gotten too easy to drive relative to previous generations of GP racing. The lack of a gear lever is a primary reason. The lack of mechanical grip a bigger reason. I don't doubt Vettel is talented, though I would't rank him above Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen all three handle pressure and overtake better than him, but there's no way he'd be a three times champion at barely the age of 24 if he were driving Senna's McLaren or Piquet's Brabham. Those cars required far far more from a driver physically and mentally and not to mention being lethally fragile.

[WhipE350]

In the Charlotte area it is about 50/50 on what is available. I just bought a 981 this past Wed with PDK. I have left hip issues and pushing a clutch is painful if I drive a lot. It kind of left me no choice if I wanted to enjoy a Porsche.

I have driven a 991 'S' with PDK a lot and with the bigger engine it is more fun, the low end torque simply helps PDK perform better. The funny thing is on both my 981 and the 991 the whole start in second gear can be scary because if you realize you need to get up and go there is a big delay unless you get used to pushing the throttle to exactly the right place. If you stomp on it then the rpms race up really high and on the Boxster that means you are screaming for no reason, on the 991 'S' it's only a moderate screem .

PDK runs my Boxster in very low rpm all the time during normal driving, the gas mileage it can put out is unbelievable. On the way back from the deal in Hickory it is few stop lights and a lot of highway. I was up at 36mpg, the last 10 miles I put the top down and well that drops the gas mileage a lot.

[WhipE350]

It is interesting in many of the Porsche youtube videos with the best/top drivers they do do their own shifting with PDK, I found that interesting.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by WhipE350

It is interesting in many of the Porsche youtube videos with the best/top drivers they do do their own shifting with PDK, I found that interesting.

That's just to save face. They aren't doing their own shifting. Those automatic Porsches are shifting for them. The driver is simply making requests and the computer 99% of the time is saying "downshift? no kidding, already on it" or "umm no you don't want 3rd, you actually want 5th, I'll ignore your request until you get it right." The paddles are more for the driver's amusement.
If PDK really was what people think it is, it would have a "PDK OFF" button like a car may have a ABS OFF button or TC OFF. A system where the computer is simply a spectator.

[Porsche Chick]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

That's just to save face. They aren't doing their own shifting. Those automatic Porsches are shifting for them. The driver is simply making requests and the computer 99% of the time is saying "downshift? no kidding, already on it" or "umm no you don't want 3rd, you actually want 5th, I'll ignore your request until you get it right." The paddles are more for the driver's amusement.
If PDK really was what people think it is, it would have a "PDK OFF" button like a car may have a ABS OFF button or TC OFF. A system where the computer is simply a spectator.

I think this is a good point. It should have an off button for those that don't prefer it.