New car

[JAAY]

I like the prelude comparison. Only big difference is the rear wheel drive. Think, if honda would have made that thing rear wheel it could have been the base of the s-2000.

[jacabean]

none of these cars compare to the boxster guys . I will take a 10 year old boxster anyday. The BRZ is underpowered and as a daily driver will become very annoying very quickly. The Genesis just feels like a total POS . sit in it and you will see where I am coming from. I do like the Focus ST but as my wife's daily driver. I have an EVO X very fast and capable but it is no boxster S , actually not even close !

[Kenny Boxster]

FRS= Fun, but Really Slow.

[JAAY]

True. But I am not looking to keep the thing stock for one second. It would have 3.8ltr turbo real fast! All that you said could be said for a boxster too. Boxsters are slow - power wise.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JAAY

All that you said could be said for a boxster too. Boxsters are slow - power wise.

Porsches in general are slow power wise.

The standard Carrera didn't cross over 350 HP even with the indroduction of the 997. And 330 HP is hardly a huge engine for that price tag. (987 Spyder 320 HP)
The 991 series will be the first to start with 350 HP since the 911 was unveiled 50 years.

[patssle]

I don't understand the BRZ - it puts out 151 lbs of torque. My 2008 Mazda 3 2.3L (a $17k car) has 150 lbs of torque.

My mom has a Subaru Forester and while they are nice cars (I've looked at the Outback for myself) - they seem overpriced for what you get.

[thstone]

BRZ? Might as well buy a Civic.

[Sunsport]

How about an e46 M3? Fantastic chassis, great engine, huge aftermarket support, prices are a way down, fairly easy to work on, no warranty to void and probably not much more depreciation either. Better looking in and out than the other Boxster replacements mentioned (IMO of course).

[Crono0001]

For those of you bagging on the BRZ....

Go out and drive one

[blue2000s]

Hmm, I think we've seen this thread from you before...

[blue2000s]

I've had 2 2g Eclipse GSXs. If you are a fan of large expanses of squishy rubber dashboards, hard leather seats, and otherwise whale-skin patterned hard plastic, then yes, they are better than the Boxster, but I personally don't think so.

If you are going to be dissatisfied with interior quality, stay far away from a Lotus. Very cheap plastic and alot of squeaking and rattling are standard equipment. We deal with it because it's part of the car's character. Loud, hard, stiff, expensive in an accident, it takes true grit to use one daily.

Criticizing a car's power or torque output without looking at the torque curve and the vehicle weight is useless. That Lotus only makes 140 Ft-lb of torque, but it does 0-60 in the mid-4's.

[blue2000s]

Originally Posted by Perfectlap

exactly.

The car was lapping Jarama quicker than the average driver who would complain about it being underpowered could come close to duplicating.
And a car with a poor chasis, suspension, steering and braking in the right hands isn't going to become magically brilliant. And yes the drifting was just thrown in as eye candy/click bait but as you could see from the real driving the car was obviously well-engineered.

Which makes me wonder exactly what basis the power critics are using to determine that the car has insufficient power?
Drag racing the Hyundai Genesis or Civic Si at the stop light? That skill set requirement is pretty limited.

This was proven to me during my last track day, when I went driving with an instructor who was passing GT3s with little effort while driving my lowly MR2.

[teleski]

Go for it! I love the looks and specs of this car, really need to go drive one. My first two and favorite cars prior to my Boxster were a 79 Celica GT and 84 Supra. I expect the BRZ to handle like a better modern version of those cars as it was designed to be.

[Porsche Chick]

JAAY

Have you actually driven BRZ or FRS? It's a drift car. I thought it would be fun, but drifting at 40 mph due to inadequate wheels, is not fun. At least not for me. But if you like it, more power to you.

Teleski; I too loved my Celicas, especially the 1990. When I heard the FRS was coming out, I spent time waiting for it, but when it came right down to it, it's just not the same animal.

[stephen wilson]

Yeah, one of the first upgrades to the BRZ should be a wider wheel & tire combo.

[JAAY]

I couldn't agree with all you more. The truth is the car actually handles pretty close to a stock base boxster. I do not want to get into the drifting scene. Info that I have dug up says that you can fit a 225-235 up front a and 10" wheel with 275's in the rear. Remember I am looking at getting a V6 Genesis not the subaru engine or the 4cyl turbo frs or genesis.

99 2.5 986
0-60 mph, sec - 6.0
Quarter mile, sec/mph - 14.5/94.6122
Lateral acceleration, - g0.94
600-ft slalom, mph - 67.7 25/29
Skidpad - .94

2013 Genesis 3.8
Quarter mile - 13.9/102mph
0-60mph - 5.2sec.
Skidpad - .94

[Sunsport]

Originally Posted by Porsche Chick

I too loved my Celicas, especially the 1990. When I heard the FRS was coming out, I spent time waiting for it, but when it came right down to it, it's just not the same animal.

I loved the 90-93 Celica as well! I had a few GT, GT-S and All-Trac models over the years. To this day the 90 All-Trac I had is the one and only car I regret selling. The build quality in and out was superb and the 3S-GTE engine was bullet proof as well as very tunable.

None of the Toyotas over the past decade or so are the same animal as those older cars. When the 7th gen came out in 2000 I couldn't wait to get a GT-S. When I bought it I was never more disappointed - a tin can on the outside and plastic container on the inside. I don't think I ever sold a car so fast.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by JAAY

I couldn't agree with all you more. The truth is the car actually handles pretty close to a stock base boxster. I do not want to get into the drifting scene. Info that I have dug up says that you can fit a 225-235 up front a and 10" wheel with 275's in the rear.

That sounds it would definitely need light wheels. Heavy anchors could easily ruin that car.

The FRS was not strictly marketed or designed to be a drift car. Obviously drifting is huge in Japan and the left coast so it had to be accessible to that camp otherwise they'd be leaving sales on the table unecessarily.
But if Toyota were looking to make a budget car squarely for drifting it would have been a very different outcome. The world's 2nd biggest car make can figure that out quiet easily and sell it for a steal. The FRS was more of a driver's exercise with an engine that allows you to use all of the power all of the time vs. so many other sports cars where you only use a fraction of the available power for fear of ending up in the trees. For a race junkie that aspect has the same appeal as the Miata which is a fixture at every track day and autocross... and those drivers are typically not drifters.


It's going to be the new car for the Toyota Long Beach Celebrity crash fest. I might actually watch it this year.

[JAAY]

I would have mine looking like this but probably in white or any other color than black. My 986 is black and it is the third black car I've owned. It is a pain in the ass but looks insane when it is cleaned

[ProjectM96]

I raced a BRZ today in my 986. He kept up with me from 0-30mph. In the end, I won by a few car lengths. Maybe it was an automatic.