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Old 09-21-2005, 11:07 AM   #1
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Go Porsche!

JD Powers Survey (CNN): "The top auto brand overall was Porsche, with a score of 908."

CNN link for whole story: http://www.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/09/21/jdpowers_apeal/index.html

Corvettes did very well, too.

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Old 09-21-2005, 05:44 PM   #2
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yea, I saw this too. Whats with the Kias?
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Old 09-21-2005, 06:22 PM   #3
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Hi,

You are aware that JD Powers does not conduct Independent Surveys? They are contracted by Auto Companies to produce surveys strictly for Marketing purposes. I am a Founder of an Internet Marketing Firm, I know full well who JD Powers is and what they do.

Almost EVERY car has been ranked #1 by JD Powers at one time or another. They will ask the questions in such a way so as to elicit a certain response or manipulate the data until their Client is #1 so that the Client can use the survey results for Advertising purposes.

An extreme example might be: "Which would you rather own, a McLaren F1 (in which case we snip off your left testicle) or a Kia Amanti? Result: People Choose the Kia Amanti over McLaren F1 by more than 10 to 1!"

Get it????

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

PS I might actually give my left nut to own an F1...

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Old 09-21-2005, 06:43 PM   #4
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Boooo....negative vibes man, Negative vibes.
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Old 09-21-2005, 07:15 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail26
Boooo....negative vibes man, Negative vibes.
Hi,

I can picture you now - Hands over your ears, shouting "Nah..Nah..Nah..Nah..."

Hate to shatter your illusions, but JD Powers Surveys are a SCAM! All very legal, but a SCAM nonetheless. Their data is meaningless!

They are not designed to arm the consumer to make an individual, informed, Buyer's Decision. They are designed to misinform you into making the Buyer's Decision they want.

Ever wonder how so many cars can be rated #1 by JD Powers? Next time you see them quoted in a commercial, look for the fine print on the bottom of the screen and see how narrowly defined the survey parameters were. The car in question couldn't help but be rated #1.

They are telling you Porschephiles exactly what you want to hear, but, the outcome was Pre-Determined!

Personally, I find it offensive that they think I can be so easily swayed - I can't ! JD Powers is the last place to look for any unbiased, accurate, information about ANY car!

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

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Old 09-21-2005, 09:52 PM   #6
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I agree with MNboxster 100%..... that JD stuff is nothing bunch rubbish!!
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Old 09-22-2005, 04:43 AM   #7
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darn, guess I better the Kia back to the dealer...
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Old 09-22-2005, 06:09 AM   #8
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@limoncello

Hi,

Hey, don't take it personally. Just because JD Powers ranks a car #1 doesn't mean it isn't, but it doesn't mean that it is either.

That's the point, a JD Powers Survey or Award (they have these too) doesn't mean anything!

They are a Shill for Auto Manufacturers, so that they (Manufacturers) can quote some important sounding Survey Institute in their advertising. The Manufacturers Pay them to come up with positive results about their car(s).

In the 1970's, American cars were pretty much ******************** when compared to the Japanese and German cars of the day. It was well known in Marketing that people responded to surveys by known groups such as Consumer Reports, Gallop, etc. So, the Big Three found this small Advertising company - JD Powers. They built it up to sound very omnipitous and all-knowing. Together, they started conducting rigged surveys to use in their Advertising so they could compete with cars from overseas. It worked, sales of American cars began to rise.

Since then, JD Powers has expanded their Market to include overseas manufacturers as clients also. I can not be certain today, but in the past, JD Powers only conducted Automotive Surveys for Manufacturers, they did no other type of surveys. In fact, if you weren't an Auto Manufacturer, you couldn't even contract with JD Powers to have them do a survey.

Consumers, American ones especially, it seems, are willing to believe just about anything so long as it sounds very Official. If they didn't, JD Powers would have folded years ago.

One example was a survey done for the Toyota Corolla, it was ranked #1 of all the Japanese, 4-door sedans w/ 1.3L Engines, Front-wheel Drive having 6.8 ft³ of Trunk Space. Well, not surprisingly, the only car being sold that year which matched these exact criteria was the Toyota Corolla, it was a Race of One, no wonder the Corolla came out on top.

It is very deceiving, but as I said, totally legal. There is no law or statute which mandates how objective a survey must be. So, by manipulating the questions or in compiling the data, JD Powers always gets the answer they are being paid to come up with. Whichever manufacturer's car comes out on top in a JD Powers survey is the company which paid JD Powers to conduct the survey.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

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Old 09-22-2005, 07:24 AM   #9
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Consumer Reports 2005 Boxster best in upscale roadster category:

Thread about Consumer Reports
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:38 AM   #10
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Pretty strong accusations.

Do you have any proof that this is occuring?





Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBoxster
@limoncello

Hi,

Hey, don't take it personally. Just because JD Powers ranks a car #1 doesn't mean it isn't, but it doesn't mean that it is either.

That's the point, a JD Powers Survey or Award (they have these too) doesn't mean anything!

They are a Shill for Auto Manufacturers, so that they (Manufacturers) can quote some important sounding Survey Institute in their advertising. The Manufacturers Pay them to come up with positive results about their car(s).

In the 1970's, American cars were pretty much ******************** when compared to the Japanese and German cars of the day. It was well known in Marketing that people responded to surveys by known groups such as Consumer Reports, Gallop, etc. So, the Big Three found this small Advertising company - JD Powers. They built it up to sound very omnipitous and all-knowing. Together, they started conducting rigged surveys to use in their Advertising so they could compete with cars from overseas. It worked, sales of American cars began to rise.

Since then, JD Powers has expanded their Market to include overseas manufacturers as clients also. I can not be certain today, but in the past, JD Powers only conducted Automotive Surveys for Manufacturers, they did no other type of surveys. In fact, if you weren't an Auto Manufacturer, you couldn't even contract with JD Powers to have them do a survey.

Consumers, American ones especially, it seems, are willing to believe just about anything so long as it sounds very Official. If they didn't, JD Powers would have folded years ago.

One example was a survey done for the Toyota Corolla, it was ranked #1 of all the Japanese, 4-door sedans w/ 1.3L Engines, Front-wheel Drive having 6.8 ft³ of Trunk Space. Well, not surprisingly, the only car being sold that year which matched these exact criteria was the Toyota Corolla, it was a Race of One, no wonder the Corolla came out on top.

It is very deceiving, but as I said, totally legal. There is no law or statute which mandates how objective a survey must be. So, by manipulating the questions or in compiling the data, JD Powers always gets the answer they are being paid to come up with. Whichever manufacturer's car comes out on top in a JD Powers survey is the company which paid JD Powers to conduct the survey.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 09-22-2005, 02:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brucelee
Pretty strong accusations.

Do you have any proof that this is occuring?
Hi,

Proof of what? That JD Powers is a Marketing Company? Or that their surveys are contracted by Automakers and not Independent? These are facts and require no proof. More to the point, do you have any evidence that what I say is not true?

And, I am not accusing them of anything, just stating the facts. They're not doing anything wrong. They don't present their surveys as unbiased, if they did, then they are probably breaking the law, but they don't. One interesting thing though is how both Consumer Reports and Gallop spend a great deal of time explaining to you how the survey was conducted and the methodology used, they want you to be assured that their surveys are fair and balanced. But, JD Powers never says how the survey was conducted, they spend no effort to establish your confidence.

As I've said repeatedly, there is nothing illegal about what they are doing. There isn't even anything wrong in what they are doing, they are a Marketing Firm assisting their Client in putting the Best Face on their product to increase Sales and Market Share. They're no more guilty of wrongdoing than the Art Dept. which Airbrushes the Car Photos for the Print Ads. Do you really believe that JEEP climbed to the Top of the Mountain? That's what they want you to think, even if subliminally. Or my current favorite, the Underarm Deoderant commercial which demonstrates that Bears won't be able to smell you if you use it. I know that's why I roll it on in the morning - to ward off the Bears!

To comply with Truth In Advertising Laws, they do conduct surveys, just as they say. But, they are under no obligation legally or morally to conduct an Unbiased survey. By carefully selecting the demographic they survey and equally carefully composing the questions, they are fairly assured of achieving the outcome they're looking for. Not only that, but they are under no obligation to publish the results of the survey if it were to turn out unfavorable, or to keep conducting surveys until they get the results they want.

They are a Marketing Firm which contracts their services to Automobuile Manufacturers. Ever wonder why Automakers don't regularly use Consumer Reports or Gallop surveys in their advertising? Because they cannot be assured of the outcome. And, if they started quoting them, they'd have a precedence to keep doing it which might not always be favorable.

A quote from JD Powers own prospectus "J.D. Power and Associates is an international marketing information firm..." This is how they describe themselves. Now I doubt that Consumer Reports or Gallop describes themselves in this same manner.

No, they do nothing illegal, it is up to the Consumer to look past these kinds of Marketing gimmicks to get the facts upon which to make their Buying Decisions. It falls under the heading of Caveat Emptor.

Marketing to people is an amazing thing. All sorts of things can positively effect one's perception of a Company or Product. Why do you think Companies only use Pretty people with straight teeth and long lean bodies to represent their products? These surveys are very influential, unfortunately this probably means most of us are pretty gullible. I had this conversation once before about JD Powers and got quite a bit of resistance from people who would rather go on believing that JD Powers was the Real Deal than admit that they were duped.

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99
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Old 09-22-2005, 03:12 PM   #12
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Talking

Please tell us how they bias the survey.

If they send me a survey and ask me how many problems I have had with my Lexus and I tell them 20, are you saying that they change the data and not report that? Do they rig the data so that Lexus always comes out on top?

Does Cadillac experience an improvement because they pay Powers more money?

How exactly are they misleading us when they publish their surveys? They put a list together from best to worst. How is that rigged exactly?

If they were being paid to put Lexus at the top of the heap for a decade, how come where haven't heard about this from say, Infiniti?
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Old 09-22-2005, 04:01 PM   #13
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MNBoxster: While I think it's nice to see Porsche ranked as they are, I really don't feel that strongly one way or the other about what JD Powers has to say. However, it seems you have a bit of an axe to grind regarding JD Powers. Although I don't question your general expertise in your profession, in the interests of fair reporting, I though I'd clarify/refute some of your statements.

"You are aware that JD Powers does not conduct Independent Surveys? They are contracted by Auto Companies to produce surveys strictly for Marketing purposes. The Manufacturers Pay them to come up with positive results about their car(s)."

From the company's FAQs:

How can J.D. Power and Associates claim its information is unbiased when manufacturers pay for the studies?
J.D. Power and Associates syndicated studies are not funded by the companies that are measured. The studies are funded and owned by the firm. After the study results are published, manufacturers, retailers, suppliers, and other industry participants can choose whether or not to purchase the reports. Ownership of the data derived from the syndicated customer satisfaction studies is key to the firm's independence and unbiased position. This third-party perspective enables J.D. Power and Associates to provide clients with credible and clear feedback from their customers.

How do companies get approval to use J.D. Power and Associates awards?
J.D. Power and Associates has strict guidelines for advertising claims and every advertisement related to a study award is reviewed to ensure accuracy. Only top-ranked performers in pre-defined categories are allowed to license the use of J.D. Power and Associates awards in advertising.


"I can not be certain today, but in the past, JD Powers only conducted Automotive Surveys for Manufacturers, they did no other type of surveys. In fact, if you weren't an Auto Manufacturer, you couldn't even contract with JD Powers to have them do a survey."

J.D. Power and Associates conducts syndicated research in the following industries:
• Automotive
• Telecommunications
• Travel
• Real Estate
• Finance
• Marine
• Healthcare
• Utilities
• Commercial Vehicles
• Sports and Entertainment
• Retailing
• Office Products
• Professional Services


"They are a Marketing Firm which contracts their services to Automobuile Manufacturers. Ever wonder why Automakers don't regularly use Consumer Reports or Gallop surveys in their advertising? Because they cannot be assured of the outcome. And, if they started quoting them, they'd have a precedence to keep doing it which might not always be favorable."

Actually, it’s because…

The Gallup organization conducts polls on human nature and behavior, not consumer affairs. Here’s a list of their poll topics…none of which are related to automobiles.

http://poll.gallup.com/topics/

The reason why Consumer Reports aren’t quoted in automobile advertisements is stated in this following excerpt from the USA Today:

“To highlight its unbiased testing, Consumer Reports doesn't accept advertising, buys its test vehicles anonymously from car dealers and doesn't allow automakers to use its results in advertising.”

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-09-29-cr_x.htm


"They are not designed to arm the consumer to make an individual, informed, Buyer's Decision. They are designed to misinform you into making the Buyer's Decision they want."

Once again from the FAQ...

How does J.D. Power and Associates conduct research?

J.D. Power and Associates surveys actual consumers by mail, telephone, and e-mail. The firm goes to great lengths to make sure that these consumers are chosen at random and that they actually have experience with the product or company they are rating. For example, ratings for the Lexus LS 400 come from people who actually own one. As a result, J.D. Power ratings are based entirely on consumer opinions and in no way reflect the firm’s opinions or preferences.

From the medium duty truck survey, partially downloadable here:

http://www.jdpower.com/library/brochures/pdfs/Trucks/MediumDuty_Trucks.pdf

Methodology:

Study participants are selected using a national sample of VIN-identified Class 5,6 and 7 medium-duty trucks (GVW of 16,001 lbs. to 33,000 lbs.) drawn from R.L. Polk company’s registration records. Medium-duty truck principal maintainers complete a comprehensive telephone interview approximately 30 minutes in length. All survey data is weighted to reflect appropriate total industry and manufacturer market share among Owner/Operator and Fleet Managers.

They also offer as part of the full report:

- Detailed findings by manufacturer
- Detailed data tabulations
- Access to the data for each question asked in survey and VIN-decoded information.

Although just a sample, it would seem that their survey practices are above-board to me.
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Old 09-22-2005, 04:11 PM   #14
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Nice Job, SD!

I took one of the Powers surveys aways back when I owned a new Lexus. Seemed fine to me!

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Old 09-22-2005, 04:15 PM   #15
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I guess BMW didn't pay off JD Power!



Mini to Adjust Shocks, Engine After Complaints
MF Staff / May 10, 2003
This comes via "dco43054" at MINI2 and Jeff Green at Bloomberg News:


Detroit, May 7 -- Bayerische Motoren Werke AG's Mini brand, the fourth-worst performer in the 2003 quality survey by J.D. Power & Associates, is adding heavier oil to its shock absorbers to create a smoother ride and reprogramming the engines to prevent stalling in an effort to address customer complaints.

The company, which sold 24,590 Minis in the U.S. last year, also is sending special coffee mugs to customers after owners complained that many cups won't fit in holders built into the car, said Jack Pitney, general manager for the Mini brand in the U.S.

The Mini was fourth worst among 37 vehicle brands ranked by the number of problems in the first three months of ownership, according to a survey by J.D. Power. The score of 166 problems per 100 cars was higher than the industry average of 133 and meant the BMW group score slipped to 124 from 116 last year.

"We're not happy with the results but we're taking action,'' Pitney said in an interview at the Automotive Press Association lunch in Detroit.

The top complaint among consumers was about the Mini's cup holder, followed by complaints that the engine hesitates or stalls, according to J.D. Power. Owners also complained about a noisy fan motor, wind noise and an uncomfortable ride, the survey found. The 17-year-old survey is watched by automakers because it can influence consumer purchases.

Pitney said he expects to sell 25,000 to 30,000 Minis in the U.S. this year. BMW, known for luxury vehicles, starts Mini prices at $16,975 and wants the cars to attract buyers who haven't previously bought the automaker's models. About 86 percent of Mini buyers hadn't purchased a BMW before, Pitney said. The Mini Cooper is intended to be the first of several models for the brand.

BMW, which has sold 11,304 Mini cars through April, plans to limit sales to about same as in 2002 to keep demand high, Pitney said. The short supply contributes to an Automobile Lease Guide estimate that 2002 Minis will retain about 61 percent of their value after three years, the highest rate for any U.S. vehicle from the model year.

The original Mini debuted in 1959 in the U.K. and was the inspiration for the naming of the miniskirt, according to BMW. The tiny car was fashionable in the U.K. during the 1960s, attracting buyers such as the Beatles' Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr, the automaker said. About 10,000 Minis were sold in the U.S. from 1960 until 1967.
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Old 09-22-2005, 05:36 PM   #16
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I went to school with JD Powers. He was cool.
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:40 PM   #17
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WOW,

Much more protest than even I expected.

It is pretty well known within the Marketing community that if you want a favorable survey with which to advertise your product, you go to JD Powers. I have had clients tell me this as well.

OK, consider this: You are a Marketing Company and want to produce surveys for sale to Manufacturers. What do you do? Well, first, you design a set of criteria about your company which gives the allution of credibility. You have follow-up forms which are sent out to past and prospective buyers. They are all tabulated, right? Hmmm... well, they must be right? I mean they have to right?

Oh, and you must fund your surveys independently of the Manufacturers, otherwise people won't believe them - Easy, I'll put out my money and then recoup it once the company buys my survey - that'll work. I can't believe those Consumer Reports guys, selling a magazine to fund their surveys, what idiots! If only I could get around that Non-profit thing, oh well, you can't have everything, maybe people won't notice.

But wait, what if the companies don't want to buy my surveys? Then what? This survey business is expensive, salaries, printing, postage, etc. I better concentrate on surveys they will buy. Too many unsold surveys and we're circling the drain...

OK, I'm a company looking for some favorable survey data to include in advertising my product... Oh look, here is a company with a veritable smorgasbord of surveys...Hmm... let's see... Oh no, not that one, it says we're #8... "Hey how come we're only #8?" "OK... but what if you only include people with 1 year Post Graduate education, and say earning between $85k & $125k? Now we're #6?... What if we only include singles?... #4? OK, now what if we only include those living in major metropolitan areas? #2..? Better, but what if we narrow it further to those in major metropolitan areas on the eastern seaboard? #1? That's Great!! "I'll Take It"! But wait, culling the responses this way drops our sample from 30,000 to only 16,000, well we don't have to use a specific number of responses, I guess it'll be OK.

But this could never happen right? Advertising doesn't ever lie, I mean, I did lose 6 lbs. and my hair is filling in a little (I think), my dick does look bigger to me, and that TV Dinner does sorta taste like Mom used to make, and that last Yugo? It was probably made on a Friday, not Yugo's fault at all, those darn UAW workers...This is maybe my main point, these surveys are merely Advertising, they are there merely to add credence to a product. The data is not compiled from professionals, it's from ordinary people. These people have already made their Buyer's decision, it's Human Nature that they would be more inclined to confirm their earlier decision than to contradict it.


Why are the cars rated #1 by JD Powers rarely the sales leaders in their categories? I guess people just didn't see that darn survey...too bad for them, the fools.

I am not here to try and convince you. You may choose to believe me or not. I merely passed on what I know, use it as you will.

And, I have absolutely no axe to grind with JD Power, I think what they've done is brilliant! Further, I am no conspiracy buff - I believe that Elvis is dead, that Nixon did purposely erase the 18 min. of tape, that there are no UFOs and that OJ did stab his wife

They're making a ton of money for both themselves and their clients. They're generating tax revenue and jobs. And they're doing it all legally!

I have no quarrel with the piece about BMW responding to Post-Consumer polling, this is just another service provided by JD Power. I once worked for Hyatt Hotels, and we used a 3rd Party firm to conduct customer satisfaction polling because the expense and burden of doing it in-house was too great. Many companies perform these services, chief among them would be Harris Polling.

But, there is a distinction to be made here: This data is produced for the Manufacturer's consumption, that is very different from producing surveys for potential buyers.

Where else, besides advertising, does the JD Power data get distributed? The CNN and Magazine news pieces? Well, they are not validating the data, they're just reporting what the survey said. The fact is, there is no validation, they simple present it for you to accept (it's fair to assume they do not present it for you to disbelieve).

I simply won't use them as a source of information when making purchasing decisions for all the reasons I've already outlined; you may do as you wish.

But, whenever a company sells survey data for profit, no matter how you disguise the process, that material cannot be seen as anything but suspect. It's your money, spend it wisely! PEACE!

Happy Motoring!...Jim'99

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Old 09-23-2005, 06:25 AM   #18
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"Why are the cars rated #1 by JD Powers rarely the sales leaders in their categories? I guess people just didn't see that darn survey...too bad for them, the fools."


Lexus, Toyota, Porsche are not sales leaders in their catagories?

Hmmm, you may want to reconsider that statement.

Re: Your entire post above, you continue to evade the questions I asked you earlier. Instead, you simply allude to how one MIGHT shave the edges of rigorous research.

To me, JD Powers conducts attitude surveys with customers based on their experiences with their cars. I don't think Powers misrepresents this fact at all.

Nor do I think the car makers misrepresent what the Powers data is. If I finished up leading a category, you can bet I would advertise that fact.

Consumer reports does the exact same thing as Powers. They ask the customers what service was required on their cars and report that data in black and red dots. How is this MORE SCIENTIFIC than Powers?

I guess I fail to see the difference.

Last question, why did you underline FOR PROFIT in your post.

Does being for profit make them suspect in your view?
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:38 AM   #19
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I hope no one takes offense to what I am about to say, but I love a "good" argument. I do research for a living and in the scientific community, surveys are not science. People lie and/or change their minds. Philosophically, surveys and peoples response to surveys often fall to an "appeal to authority". They really don't tell you anything other than one person's (or the summation of many people's) opinion.

Example: I took my wife to a Yankee game last month -- the one where they came back and scored 5 runs in the bottom of the 9th against the Royals. If asked, I would say that it was the best game I ever saw. The hotdogs were better, the air was clean, the seats were great, yada yada yada. Now, if the survey was conducted before the 9th, I was ready to leave early and I would have said how crappy our seats were, how I hated the 2 bratty, uncontrolled kids who kept kicking my seat while their parents held strictly to the non-invasion form of parenting, why did the Yankees sign Matt Lawton, etc.... you see the point? Surveys are subjective.



While I appreciate all of the posts from MNboxster who seems very knowledgable -- and who knows, I may bump into you if you are going to the U2 show t'night - You posed this in your most recent post:

"OK, consider this: You are a Marketing Company and want to produce surveys for sale to Manufacturers. What do you do? Well, first, you design a set of criteria about your company which gives the allution of credibility. You have follow-up forms which are sent out to past and prospective buyers. They are all tabulated, right? Hmmm... well, they must be right? I mean they have to right?"

You also posted this as your first post in this thread:

"I am a Founder of an Internet Marketing Firm, I know full well who JD Powers is and what they do."

Now, while I personally don't give a rat's you-know-what about JD Powers, my question is more fundamental:

Are you giving an unbiased opinion?

Sure, I read this:

"Why are the cars rated #1 by JD Powers rarely the sales leaders in their categories? I guess people just didn't see that darn survey...too bad for them, the fools.

I am not here to try and convince you. You may choose to believe me or not. I merely passed on what I know, use it as you will.

And, I have absolutely no axe to grind with JD Power, I think what they've done is brilliant! Further, I am no conspiracy buff - I believe that Elvis is dead, that Nixon did purposely erase the 18 min. of tape, that there are no UFOs and that OJ did stab his wife

They're making a ton of money for both themselves and their clients. They're generating tax revenue and jobs. And they're doing it all legally!"

So, maybe, I'm thinkin' you really don't have the axe to grind and are trying to enlighten people as to the truth behind JD Powers. Sort of a modern-day "scratchy-throat", since we know you aren't "deep throat". Regardless, let's get back to the topic. We are talking about a survey. A person who invests heavily in something will likely rate it much higher than it actually is in order to psychologically justify it's purchase -- This isn't new and is one of the main reasons people stay in fraternities; why else go through hazing, right? So, may we hypothesize that, from what we know, people are not always honest. Let's be truthful: How many people say they "truly" exercise when sitting on the table at the doctor's office? Hmmm? Do 2-3 cigars/cigarettes/month constitute smoking? Do we really eat the "healthy" diet? And what do we say...? I'm sure some people are brutally honest, but I have my doubts about everyone else.

I want to thank people for reading my rambling. It's really been a nice outlet. My concluding remarks are this:

If people are going to go in a purchase a car based on a JD Powers survey, let them. Obviosuly, these are people in favor of a big(ger) government since they can't make a decision on their own and can't do research for themselves, so they are better left to the opinions of others rather than trying to come up with their own. As for everyone else, well if you car happens to be the one that is #1 this week, Bully for you! Hopefully, your was built on a Wednesday, since statistics tell us that cars built on Wednesdays are the most reliable.
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Old 09-23-2005, 07:07 AM   #20
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As a car dealer, I can tell you that there is NOTHING scientific about the way folks buy a Porsche. They may tell you that and they may act that way, but this is an emotional purchase all the way!

If you don't believe me, pick up an issue of your local PCA chapters magazine. These folks come across like children having fun with the new toy, which of course they are!

Let the good time roll!




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