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Old 09-13-2005, 07:02 AM   #1
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Caymen S

Hey, Porsche has a great new photo of the Caymen S on thier web-site. Great looking car, and very cool color.

I am curious, who do you think is the potential market for this car? Are Boxster owners? Carrera owners?

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Old 09-13-2005, 09:14 AM   #2
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I'll be curious to see who buys it, and in what numbers. As noted in some earlier threads, a lot of Porsche buyers (Box and 911) like convertibles.
One group I think will buy it are the racers - this thing should be wicked on the track. And with the usual mods for all-out track cars, look out. Trying to fold this into a marketing strategy, could it be "successful" if it wins races, builds image, even though the sales numbers aren't that high?
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Old 09-13-2005, 11:41 AM   #3
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There is no beating a mid engine car.
I saw clips of the CaymanS on the Nurburg Ring in full power slide.
This is a Porsche for the purist.
Can't wait to see what RUF does with it.

By the way, I really think this will evolve into the Flagship Porsche.
Rear engine Porsche's are long overdue for retirement. Those backseats
have been its saving grace. The average Carrera owner is probably over 40 with kids and has no intention of going to the track or autocross. And of course the Carrera is a beautiful car. That's not the Cayman buyer or Cayman motivation.
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Old 09-13-2005, 03:00 PM   #4
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I understand your point(s), and to some extent share them, Perfectlap. But if you are correct that old farts buy the Carreras and the true enthusiasts buy the Box, and hopefully the Cayman, then why are PCA driving events (DE and auto-x) wall-to-wall with Carreras but Boxsters are thin upon the ground?
At one time I thought the Cayman was going to be the platform on which Porsche built it's future GT racing success, but after repeated denials of any such ambition from Porsche, I am beginning to take them at their word. The factory continues to say that the 911 will remain the platform of choice for their production car racing program, and will never, not ever, use the Boxster platfrom, inculding the Cayman, for racing.
If this is true I have to scratch my head a little about the reason for the introduction of the Cayman. Racey guys want racey cars, and nothing is racier than the street version of whatever the factory is racing. For the forseeable future that remains the 911.
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Old 09-13-2005, 06:52 PM   #5
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The market for the Caymen will be people like the one I bought my Boxster S from. He wanted the mid engine performance of the Boxster and could care less about the covertable top. In 2 years of ownership I think he said he drove with the top down 3 times.

What he was looking for was a great handling car that had room for him and his wife with their golf bags (or whatever they needed to carry for their weekends away).

Not exactly the demographic of the people on this forum but certainly the target market for the Caymen, someone who wants the performance, needs a bit more room for luggage, doesn't want a convertable and doesn't have $80K to spend. They should be able to sell as many as they care to import IMHO.
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:09 PM   #6
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Do you think Caymen (hate that name!) production will take away from Boxster availability? In other words, if they are making Caymens, will it be harder to get a Boxster? This could acutally be a good thing for us current owners of 986/987's!
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:22 PM   #7
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Exclamation

Boxster rules for me. Just driving in the morning to work and back home later with the top down listening to the boxer engine whirl is just heavenly. Sure performance wise the Cayman will be better and is better but the delta is insignificant. About 5 miles in the top speed. Realistically how many of us will ever do 160 plus miles per hour with our cars let alone 170. Maybe a targa could be a possibility but in the coupe form not even with a sunroof. No thanks I will be very happily motoring with my Boxster S. As far if it is going to hurt the Boxster, I think not. The Boxster is more for the purist than a Cayman. I doubt very much if it will hurt the 911 either. The strong suit of the Cayman it is strong chasis and handling. There fore those who are inclined to the racing aspect of the car will be the major buyers. I believe the new C-6 is on the same price range as the Cayman which will give it a run for its money.
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Old 09-13-2005, 07:24 PM   #8
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I will be a contraian here. I think that:

Most Boxster owners like the ragtop and

Most 911 owners will never "go down" to a Boxster derviative.

I think Porsche has created a car with very limited market appeal.

I may be wrong also.



PS- for 65 large, that new z06 is looking mighty good right about now.
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Old 09-13-2005, 08:42 PM   #9
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i may be in the minority

but i would trade my box for a 993 or a 996 in a heartbeat. For no other reason than i fell in love with Carreras when I was young, and it is still what I am working toward. Box's may be technically more balanced, etc, but i dont care.

Plus, I would rather have the rear jump seat than a rear trunk -- for what I carry, it would be more convenient.
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:21 AM   #10
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For some reason everyone thinks inside the box of Cayman buyers. I see that the main target buyer will be new pcar buyers. I believe the Cayman will not take away 911 and boxster sales as you think. In fact, I believe it it aimed to take away sales from vette, nsx, m3, and slk 55amg owners. Come on guys, you can't think that the intent was to take away internal sales!!
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Old 09-14-2005, 05:53 AM   #11
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I would not agree with the above.

I don't see a vette or M3 buyer switcing to the Cayman. Could be wrong but the cars are (IMHO) very very different.

One point, the interior of the Cayman will be TINY vs the interiors of the other two cars.


I just predict a very slow sales record for the Cayman.


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Old 09-14-2005, 06:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronzi
I understand your point(s), and to some extent share them, Perfectlap. But if you are correct that old farts buy the Carreras and the true enthusiasts buy the Box, and hopefully the Cayman, then why are PCA driving events (DE and auto-x) wall-to-wall with Carreras but Boxsters are thin upon the ground?
At one time I thought the Cayman was going to be the platform on which Porsche built it's future GT racing success, but after repeated denials of any such ambition from Porsche, I am beginning to take them at their word. The factory continues to say that the 911 will remain the platform of choice for their production car racing program, and will never, not ever, use the Boxster platfrom, inculding the Cayman, for racing.
If this is true I have to scratch my head a little about the reason for the introduction of the Cayman. Racey guys want racey cars, and nothing is racier than the street version of whatever the factory is racing. For the forseeable future that remains the 911.
Around these neck of the woods Boxsters and 996 Carreras are fairly even in numbers at DE and Autocross. Now there are many 993 and older 911's and well that tips the scales in favor of the Carreras. And Most of the 996 seen at these events are the far more expensive versions of the Standard Carrera.

As far as Porsche and their plans for racing the Cayman, well we all know what would happen if Porsche put up a lighter, better handling, shorter wheelbase, similarly powered car against their flagship car. This would be a HUGE problem from a marketing point of view if the cheaper car was consistently outperforming the more expensive within the same formula.
So yes I too believe Porsche when they the Cayman won't be the car for LeMans success. Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

And no I don't predict the Cayman to sell in big numbers because like the Carrera, for the performance you get there are far better alternatives for the money. Most purist are driving enthusiasts first and sportscar guys second.
The kind of buyer who would snatch up a Lotus Elise if not for the $50K price tag, that kind of money for a Toyota 1.8? No thanks. Ditto on the Cayman, just too expensive.

I read somewhere that the average income for a Porsche owner is $500K. I think most new Porsche car buyers will never go anywhere near a track or autocross.
Porsche have to decide whether their flaggship car will be driven by the customer demographic (and their required backseat) or driven by uncompromised performance. With plans for a four door sportscar and the SUV accounting for 40% of sales, Porsche are losing their edge and cashing in on the brand.
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Old 09-14-2005, 07:11 AM   #13
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I would take a Cayman over a 997 anyday. I love the styling (I actually prefer coupes). The Cayman reminds me more of a classic 911 with flares. I think the Cayman is going to be a much better balanced car (the Boxster already is) than the 911.
As for target audience and limiting the racing, shot in the dark! Porsche is about racing. It's where they built their reputation. It's also hard to argue with Porsche because in all the major racing events (i.e. LeMans, Daytona) they win with the 911. So why change. Target audience I think will be more people like myself. I don't purchase a Porsche just because of the badge. I purchase it because of the performance pure and simple. I drove a 996 back to back with a Boxster. It was VERY aparent to me that the Boxster was better balanced when pushed. That is what I like, balance. The Cayman is going to give better control at the limit vs. the 911.
If you want to see what the Cayman can really do to the 911 given the proper horsepower, wait till Ruf puts a 400hp GT3 engine in it and then see what happens!
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Old 09-14-2005, 08:58 AM   #14
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Maybe we're over-reaching. Could it simply be that there is a niche market for hardtop boxtsers? The sales numbers may be low, but the cost to adapt a box to a cayman is also low. Porsche normally does its homework - if they can invest a modest amount in development, sell enough to cover the costs and leave some profit on the table, and satisfy yet another constituancy - then it's a winner, even if the numbers are small. Plus any new model gets written up in the media = free advertising.
On a personal note, can't wait till there are 5-10 year old caymans to buy cheap and race, but that's just me.
Last - agree with the comment that it needs another name. Need a Name the Car contest. Feel free to submit -
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Old 09-14-2005, 09:28 AM   #15
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I second the name change. Cayman? I'd like to see them go back to numbers. What's wrong with 986/7 for Boxsters, and 987SC for the Cayman?


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Old 09-14-2005, 09:34 AM   #16
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yes I agree the R&D of producing an all new coupe must have been low for Porsche. Which is why I think the next flagship Porsche will be derived from
the Boxster.
Are Porsche going to continue with a rear engine car into perpetuity?
Are they going to go through all the time and expense to come up with a third
rear engine car? I don't think so.
The Panamera will not be in the price range to replace the Carrera,
which leaves:

A) Rear engine: Continue with an outdated config.
B) Mid engine: Develop the Boxster>Cayman>?
C) Front engine: all New Porsche coupe? (with back seats of course)
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:08 AM   #17
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Hey Perfectlap:

Where did you see the Cayman power slide clips?

- X


There is no beating a mid engine car.
I saw clips of the CaymanS on the Nurburg Ring in full power slide.
This is a Porsche for the purist.
Can't wait to see what RUF does with it.
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Old 09-14-2005, 11:42 AM   #18
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The flagship for Porsche is clearly the 911. There are many reasons why this is but I can tell you the main one is MARGIN!


I don't see that changing in the future nor do I see them going away from the rear engine drive mode for the 911.

I am not defending the strategy, simply predicting.
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:38 PM   #19
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About name, in my humble opinion Cayman sounds more nicer that a pair of boxers, oh sorry Boxsters.
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Old 09-14-2005, 01:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucelee
The flagship for Porsche is clearly the 911. There are many reasons why this is but I can tell you the main one is MARGIN!


I don't see that changing in the future nor do I see them going away from the rear engine drive mode for the 911.

I am not defending the strategy, simply predicting.
It is what it is if anyone has not gotten it wake up! It is a 911 centric hub in Porsche. Essentially their marquee car is the 911 which is overpriced and the profits are huge due to the big profit margin on the car. It is the cash cow of the company that pumps money for the other products and racing programs. All the other vehicles are the gravy for the company.

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