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Old 02-11-2012, 02:12 PM   #1
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"Converter Seal" or "Front pump seal"

Gents,
Dropped car off my indy the other day to investigate the leak I was having that I thought was the RMS. He emailed me back today saying:

"There is a bad trans fluid leak between the engine and transmission, I suspect either the converter seal or front pump seal."

Is this a normal failure item (MY'00 Tip) on these? I'm gonna assume this means removing trans, so should I have the IMS done at the same time?

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Old 02-11-2012, 02:32 PM   #2
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The converter seal is around the front “snout” drive housing of the converter, while the front pump seal is around the other edge of the front pump unit itself.

To get at either, the trans must come out; so it is the perfect time to update both the RMS and IMS.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:23 AM   #3
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Dang... I guess I should be thankful it's just the "seal" and not the pump itself lol.

How does that IMS thing work? Can I only buy it from LN or is there some place else to get it? Just not sure how to tell the Indy "hey I want you to do the IMS while you're in there" and him not know where to get the part. Is that something I would buy and give to him to install?
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #4
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Normally, the shop obtains the LN bearing directly; the reason for this is that some years may have had either single or double row bearings, and the only way to know for sure is to look at the rear cover of the OEM IMS to determine which one is in the car. Your car falls into this category as it is a 2000. Most shops that do the installs know what to look for, and if they do not already stock the LN units, they can overnight the correct one, along with the later RMS. If your shop does not know what you are talking about, take the car somewhere else that does.

Realistically, you would pay the same for the bearing if you bought it directly or through your shop, so it won't make much difference.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:19 AM   #5
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JFP,
Needing some advice...
My car is STILL in the shop... going on Week 5 for this fix. The shop owner, who I have a very good relationship with and has done work on my Box for a long time, has a lot of personal issues going on (wife is in hospital)... I called for an update on the status and was told about 2 seals.. a "double lip seal" and a "pump converter seal" that may be the problem. He also mentioned an "O-ring" seal at the differential or something that had no part number and was not available through Porsche or aftermarket. He said he has done that O-ring replacement using a "rebuild kit" on a Cayenne once, but not a Boxster and he honestly doesn't know if that is part of the problem or not, but wanted to mention it as I was having the labor done anyway.

I told him because it is taking so long, I wanted him to replace the 2 seals that ARE available from Porsche, and the updated RMS as well. I decided against updating the IMS for now.

He told me he would have to order the special Porsche tool for replacing this "Double lip seal" and it could take a week or so. Then, another week for actual work once I approve the estimate. So we're looking at another 2 weeks best case scenario....

Does all this sound "kosher"? How much am I actually saving by having my Indy do this work over the stealership?

I miss my car
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:38 AM   #6
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Porsche uses a lot of unique tools, and being such a small market, the aftermarket tool makers often chose not to make them. A good example it the special tool required to install the latest version PTFE RMS, it is a two piece tool that is only available from Porsche, and costs $500.....and has to be ordered.........all to install a $23 seal. No one in the aftermarket makes one to date. But it could be worse; the legendary “Pin out box” that the OEM diagnostics manual seems to need for every circuit test costs over $1,000, and there currently is an eight month wait for them……..

So what you are encountering is pretty much SOP for a shop that has not done one of these before.
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Old 03-20-2012, 04:56 PM   #7
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Dumb question, but should the shop pay for those tools and view it as an expense, as they'll most likely use them again, or is he going to expect me to pay for the specialty tool? Assuming he makes ME pay for it, I'd definitely tell him I'm keeping it then, and could I expect to be able to re-sell this possibly to recoup some of the cost?

I think he said he had the RMS tool, but if he doesn't... that'll just be... the icing on the cake...

You know.. I wonder how this doesn't happen to others with TIPs. All this talk about IMS's and such, but no other TIP owners having a seal fail or anything? Am I a one-off??
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Old 03-21-2012, 05:13 AM   #8
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If he is a Porsche mechanic then he should have the proper tools and you should not have to be responsible for the cost. That's like you buying the tool. No way.
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Old 03-21-2012, 10:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stateofidleness View Post
Dumb question, but should the shop pay for those tools and view it as an expense, as they'll most likely use them again, or is he going to expect me to pay for the specialty tool? Assuming he makes ME pay for it, I'd definitely tell him I'm keeping it then, and could I expect to be able to re-sell this possibly to recoup some of the cost?

I think he said he had the RMS tool, but if he doesn't... that'll just be... the icing on the cake...

You know.. I wonder how this doesn't happen to others with TIPs. All this talk about IMS's and such, but no other TIP owners having a seal fail or anything? Am I a one-off??
No shop worth dealing with should hold you responsible for paying for tools needed to fix your car.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:18 PM   #10
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Gents,
an update on this one..

I've attached the estimate I got from my mechanic to have this work done... I should have been sitting down! Man, that aftermarket warranty would have been awesome right about now...

Anyways, do the prices on here seem reasonable? He said the transmission fluid replacement labor would be reduced from what's on the estimate if I chose to do it at the same time as most of the labor involves removing the panels and braces.

The $745 is for an aftermarket transmission rebuild kit that has all the seals in it already (no wait from Germany), but is more expensive than individual seals. It does include the unavailable front pump outer seal however.

$845 for a transmission fluid flush?? really? He did say the labor would probably be half, but damn, 1k for a flush? and people are worried about IMS's?

So for the invoice, the total is $3288 without the aftermarket rebuild kit, and $2443 without the fluid flush. This is for the "double lip" seal, trans converter seal, and updated RMS replacement, topping up differential fluid, and transmission fluid flush.

What would you do? (ps: he doesn't charge for the tools)
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:18 PM   #11
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so.. car is still in the shop... another month gone by... waiting on tools to arrive from Germany (6 week wait)

so depressing... words can't describe.

note to self: if I ever own another Tiptronic, I will purchase an extended warranty.

How has no one else had trouble with the Tips? Since the dealer won't service them, it seems like more people would be pissed about minor problems as they can't be serviced by the dealer. Do I just have bad luck or what?
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:38 AM   #12
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You are not alone; Tips were a very small percentage of the total cars sold, so even dealers don't want to work on them. And as the Tip is now gone, if you get a PDK, get the warranty; no one can work on them, even if they wanted to, they have to be replaced..............
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:06 AM   #13
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this one just keeps getting better. got an estimate today of somewhere north of $8,000 (from an Indy!) to replace the transmission with a rebuilt. Car isn't even worth that. Apparently some "pump" failed and is not available anywhere. Indy couldn't get torque converter off (had to slide hammer and pry bar it off) and found a bearing that had spun or something (sorry, I missed a lot of what was said after hearing the quote)

what a piece of ********************... only had 70k miles on it!! are you kidding me?

I can almost buy another used boxster for that much, but i'd still be left with a "roller". I told him I'll probably just come pick the car up and let it sit as I don't have that kind of money right now.

Lessons learned: Don't buy a Tip (unless you're rich, but even then, the principle of a transmission dying at 70k and costing more than the car to replace should be enough to stop you)
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Old 06-07-2012, 09:17 AM   #14
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Check Mike Focke's website for a list of dismantelers and look for a used one.

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