deal on Michelins - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Pilot2519j · 06-26-2005, 08:24 PM

I *applaude* Michelin on taking their driver's lives as being more important than your personal satisfaction.[/QUOTE]

First I am not attacking you personally so don't take it wrong even though you allege "I am very infantile over this". I'm an engineer and I know things go wrong at any time nor am proposing Death Race 2000 either but how much time does Michelin need for a track in which they have raced 5 times in the same configuration? On the other hand Bridgestone had the tire for the race. Same configuration same curve same everything, they did their homework and were ready. You are trying to convince me that because one team is not ready Bridegstone, FIA & Indy Grand Prix should acquiesce to Michelin's arrogance. "I don't think so". They should have raced at the tolerance of the tire. IF that means they have to go 45 kph so be it. Their problem, their snafu, engineering faux pas what ever you want to call it their image right now is at rock bottom. I still will emphatically tell you Michelin would not have tried this in Europe.

Rail26 · 06-26-2005, 08:43 PM

Great Debate and I totally agree...but lets thanks limoncello for the info! I'm always thankful for money saving tips or info. Thanks!!! By the way, anybody going to the Molson Indy in Toronto next weekend?

limoncello · 06-27-2005, 04:59 AM

I've had good performance with Michelins over the years on Volvo's & a couple of other cars. But they shot themselves in the foot at Indy. I agree that they did what they had to do safetywise, but this will leave a sour taste in folks for a while, and deservedly so. Will be curious to see how they recover.
Nuff said, & back to reasonably priced tires for Boxsters: I took some heat on this forum for getting Sumitomos - they're OK for me on the street (I don't push it that hard on the street) but on the track at limit they do scrub around certain corners, and I think the sidewall flex mentioned by another reader correctly identifies the problem. So I will run these tires down some and then change.
Any first hand knowledge of the PS2 or Contisports ON THE TRACK? Would appreciate it.
Also, it seems that going from my 17" to 18" and a lower profile may help on track, at some expense to street comfort. Open for experience on that as well. Thanks.

pez · 06-27-2005, 11:46 AM

Great Debate!
I too lost out at Indy as well

It’s great to see that Michelin took safety as top priority, to save us from another Williams/Ayrton Senna disaster. However they have raced at Indy several times and should know the stresses involved there.
Several years ago JPM ran a whole race on one set of Michelins and I think that was at Indy but I may be wrong about the track. They even loaded up a jet and flew over a second batch to run and that set failed on the test rig with the same failure. It just seems to be a case of poor engineering but who knows it could be from the recent change in management for Michelin’s F-1 program. Regardless Michelin “was caught with their pants down” plain and simple and was not prepared for Indy. Those Pirelli and Bridgestones are sounding better each day!

Pez

Brucelee · 06-27-2005, 12:06 PM

I am not one to reopen the debate, and certainly never one to defend the French. However, if I though Michelin made the best tire for my Box and I was after the best tire (ignoring price for the moment), I would buy it. If not, I would not.

I can't see the connection between what happens at Indy and what happens on my Box, but I could just be being stupid here. If so, enlighten me please.

pez · 06-29-2005, 06:06 AM

If you were one of the many that had tickets to the USGP Michelin is offering a refund..
I know this thread got off the topic but thought this would go with the debate...

Pez

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=33279

Perfectlap · 06-29-2005, 07:32 AM

This event makes me want to buy a set of Michelin tires. Too bad I spent $1000 on Toyo RA-1's. (just cut a side wall in the back had to buy a new one after only 1,700 miles $240).

I applaud Michelin for their decision to ensure the driver's safety. Anger directed at Michelin is misdirected. I am still appalled that a governing body would green light a race after the tire manufacuter cam out point blank and said we goofed and these tires are not safe. Yet the governing body said 'no, get in the cars and race". Utterly reprehensible decision making. A queue of cars weaving their way in 6th gear through a train of cars going significantly slower is begging for a high speed collision.
And as we saw last year at Indy when one of the driver's hit the wall, this particular racing formula is poor at quickly responding to accidents. I don't think I've ever seen a driver at Indy sit in a car that long before a medic came to his aid. Once the wreckage was cleared the officials failed to properly clear the track and a driver quickly crashed out a few laps later after running over carbon fiber. They didn't even have the sense to redirect the saftey car and the other cars through the pit lane during the caution period while the wreckage was cleared. THe cars were litteraly driving over carbon lap after lap when they could have been safely rerouted throught the pit lane.
And we are supposed to trust these guys?

Michelin did the right thing. This season brought new rules that required the teams to use only one set of tires all weekend. A ridiculus rule in motorsports. It compromises the racing as the drivers have to go easy all weekend even in qualifying which has degenerated into a marketing/advertising session. And during the races the driver's have to constantly be driving at 90% effort for fear of flat spotting. Its complete nonsense to spend $400M on two little cars and then dilute the racing.

I feel very bad for all the people who spent thousands to attend this race but don't blame Michelin entirely. This turned into a poker a match and the F1 rules makers were fully expecting the teams to be bluffing. They got a big surprise.
In this country with infinite laws, there could be no other outcome once the tire manufacturer stated that the tires were dangerous under full cornering load.
The directors of the Williams team were only recently fully exhonerated after a 10 year Italian criminal investigation into the death of one their drivers a 3X world champion. Those directors could well have been arressted and sent to prison once they stepped foot in Italy. I think we can learn something about from the Italians about being 100% behind the driver's safety.