Porsche Approved Oil List

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mptoledo

Cool, thanks, hey what does the 40 stand for?

The viscosity/weight when hot............

[Paul]

0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars. M1 has put different additives in the oil to replace the ZDDP. (from a tech session at the Porsche Parade in Keystone last week.)

Please look at your warranty book and show me where it requires us to change the oil to maintain the factory warranty.

[greesedc]

Originally Posted by Paul

0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars. M1 has put different additives in the oil to replace the ZDDP. (from a tech session at the Porsche Parade in Keystone last week.)

Please look at your warranty book and show me where it requires us to change the oil to maintain the factory warranty.

I missed that tech session because I was working elsewhere, but I did put the same question to the guy manning the Mobil 1 trailer, and he said that the M1 that we use will not break down between 15K intervals. I was concerned about annual oil changes with low annual miles, and he said that as long as our cars were fuel injected, M1 sitting for long periods of no use is no problemo.
It is the carburated cars that sit around, bounce around on trailers, etc, that causes the carb floats to stick or bypass, thereby dumping gas into the oil and contaminating it. But for us late model Porsche folks, especially Boxsters and later 911's it is the 40W (weight and viscosity) that is important in the M1 "european formula" (Porsches, Mercedes and BMW). The guy was a storehouse of knowledge about Mobil1 products for all cars and all the way up to his own Diesel tractor/trailer.
I can't tell for sure, but are these the same mugs used at the Beerfest?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Paul

0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars.

You might not be so quick to state that if you looked at UOA data collected over a couple of years.................I’ll reiterate what I said earlier: “I would not use any oil with a "0W" rating, regardless of maker.” Period.

[Paul]

I've used it for more than 100,000 miles with no issues, no oil usage, and perfect oil tests by Blackstone. No emotion or religion, just the facts. Also my lifters do not clatter at start up.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Paul

I've used it for more than 100,000 miles with no issues, no oil usage, and perfect oil tests by Blackstone. No emotion or religion, just the facts. Also my lifters do not clatter at start up.

I'm happy that you’re happy. Unfortunately, we typically do about a dozen or so oil changes on customer's Porsche’s a week, and our collected results (and UOA's) do not back up your experience, particularly when you look at the performance of the same grades of oil in the same cars over time. Mobil has reformulated several of their grades as many as three times over the last five years or so, and oil testing has shown the changes have not always been positive ones. Sure, in many cases the oil could still be considered "OK" after low miles; but with many customers going 7,500 to over 10,000 miles between changes, and the results look a lot different. Throw in DE's and/or AX's (particularly in hot weather), and the results began to look absolutely dismal. Yet the same raced/abused cars running a 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic (not a Mobil product) continued to have great UOA's after 10,000 miles and a lot of track time..................

[tommy986]

where can i get a list of 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic oils?

thanks.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by tommy986

where can i get a list of 10W-40 ACEA A3, B3, B4 full synthetic oils?

thanks.

You'd have either check their websites for tech data sheets (assuming they have them which some do not), or visit a well stocked store and read the backs of some containers. Pay attention to the ACEA ratings rather than the API as ACEA requires the finished product to be tested in order to obtain ratings, while the API has shifted to a "self policing" and “component rating” mode since it became the public relations and marketing arm of the US industry rather than a watchdog............... You can find an ACEA "whitepaper" as a PDF file if you do a Google search, which will explain the meaning for their ratings system, which is very comprehensive.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Paul

0w-40 M1 is fine for our cars. M1 has put different additives in the oil to replace the ZDDP. (from a tech session at the Porsche Parade in Keystone last week.)

Yes, probably given by a sales person from Mobil. One of the Parade organizers asked me after the 356 Lit Meet earlier this year to do an oil talk like I've given to many clubs and at national events (I was on vacation, so I couldn't), but I wouldn't have since if I didn't have anything nice to say, so I was better off not saying anything at all. :-) Mobil was a sponsor for the Parade and it was implied that I had to play nice, and everyone knows what I think of the new Mobil 1 formulations.

Like I tell many I speak to, if you insist on running a Mobil 1 product, there's always the M1 10w40 4T Racing motorcycle formulation, that is closest in spec to what would have been used back in the late 90s when these engines were new (in respect to Zn and P). You could even run a 50/50 blend with the m1 0w40 and motorcycle oil if you wanted, that's what's in our Boxster now. Can't wait to see the used oil results.

[Paul]

Charles I have attended one of your seminars and I have sent you one of my UOAs (at your request) that clearly showed that 11,000 miles and 17 months of use of M1 0w-40 was fine.

[cnavarro]

Sorry Paul, not trying to single you out. Just I get a lot of phone calls re: M1.

Most definitely Paul, your results showed that the 2 yr, 12,000 mi drain interval is certainly doable. I just had another sample of Pentosin 5w40 with 2 years and 7,000 mi still had a TBN of 7.2 (started at 10), with wear levels the lowest I've ever seen from an M96 engine (5w40, SL rated). Driving styles and habits clearly affect drain intervals, no argument there.

I myself have observed a 5,000 mi interval (with changes approximately every 6 months) gets me to a TBN of just under 5, which to some, is the sweet spot of when to change your oil. That's with mixed driving including short drives where the oil isn't given a chance to get hot enough to vapor off the water content. Winter driving also seems to reduce TBN faster and yield increased wear levels. Cars that aren't driven in the winter aren't subjected to the demands placed on the lubricant that otherwise a year round car might see.

Also, forgot to add, oil formulation has a great deal to do with drain interval too. Oils with less Zn and P will form less acid, allowing longer drain intervals. Secondly, the majority of oils, M1 included, use primarily a Ca-based detergent, that is more thermally stable and maintains TBN better, allowing for further longer drain intervals. A lot of the oils I personally like, due to formulation, would require shorter drain intervals accordingly. Good example of how this affects drain interval is Valvoline NSL Racing - they recommend a 600 mi drain interval on a 5 qt capacity, which I've verified through UOA, adjusting drain interval for increased volume.

[Flavor 987S]

Charles, there are 2 additional things I have also learned from your web site:

1) Oil filter changes 1/2 way through the oil drain interval

2) Always change the oil after the use of a fuel system cleaners like Chevron's with Techron

Can you please comment a little more about these recommendations, as to why you make these suggestions? Thanks!

Lastly, what is your opinion of Mobil's 5W50??

[Brucelee]

I used to use M1 exclusively in all my vehicles. Then, they started to get cagey about whether they really were selling a true syn oil. Many (including me) believe they now sell a hydro-cracked version under the M1 brand, rather than the Group 4 formula they had been selling.

Hence, I moved to Red Line.

Who knows the truth or if there is a "truth."