Car got towed yesterday .. would appreciate some insights

[nefarious986]

Hi,

My sister's vehicle was towed (IMO illegally) after midnight last night. I would really appreciate any legal clarification of what happened, ideally by lawyer or cop as this situation leaves me thinking having title to a car means squat in CA.

First off, Here's some background information:

My sister got a loan from a big named loan company a few years ago and bought a car out of state.

Due to someone's mistake, most likely out of state dealer, her name is the ONLY name that ended up on the car's title. No lien holder name on title.

She missed two month's payment so last night the repo guys showed up and decided to tow the car. She explicitly told him that she has title to the car and he's not allowed to tow. She said she's going inside the house to the the title to show him that she owns the car. While she ran inside. He drove off. So I am minding my own business when she ran into my room screaming that someone took her car. I ran outside and saw the tow truck at the end of the street.

I figured that there was only one way to the freeway so I jumped into my car ( had to wait almost 2 minute for the stupid garage door to open and close ) and then sped after him. I wanted to try and stop him or at least see where he's taking the car before calling the police. I guess the tow guy is really smart and hid somewhere instead of going to the freeway because even going very fast, I didn't catch him on the 30 minute drive.

So we called the police and reported the car stolen. The police in turn told us it was a repo tow, and they will contact the tow company for us in the morning. They did not give us the name of the company or location where the car was towed to.

So short version of a bunch of calls to police, to the loan company, we finally got in contact with the tow yard, and they agreed to release her car without us paying any fee, but will not tow it back to the original place they took the car.

What the tow company told us was simply that they got a tow order from the loan company. It doesn't even matter what paper work we would have shown the driver. It would still have been towed.

What the police told us was that we can not report this car stolen, because the police knew where it was, but they wont help us retrieve the car because its a civil dispute.

So,

And yes, I am aware that its a technicality that the only registered owner is my sister and the loan company is not also on the title.

But the title SHOULD mean that by California law, the ONLY owner of the vehicle and the ONLY person with rights to that vehicle is the parties named on title. In this case, ONLY my sister.

The fact that my sister owes the loan company money should be dealt in financial court if anything because the loan company failed to put a lien on the vehicle at registration !

The tow company itself should not have knowledge of the financial information and should be concerned only with their job which is towing cars. They should have to check prior to towing that the person ordering the tow is in fact allowed to. (ie on title)

Now,

My questions:

1. How can it not be a stolen vehicle, if the ONLY registered owner on title ( my sister ) does not have possession of the vehicle, and not knowledge of the location of it ?

2. How can they tow a car without checking who's name is on the vehicle title?

Anyways, sorry for the super long post.

I am going to the tow company tomorrow and I am livid right now. The driver was disrespectful and dismissive as was the tow company and even the police.

I want the car back to its original place for free or I am filing a law suit or at least a complaint against both the tow driver and the tow company with the BBB.

If it is true that anyone can order a tow and tow companies will just tow any car regardless of ownership on title, then I am going to have a lot of fun in the next couple months.

[kt1]

I'm not a lawyer but did take some courses of pre-law and also am a claims adjuster so I deal with lienholders and tow yards quite frequently.

Your argument of ownership and titling of the vehicle holds true and the tow company is in error. But in essence the police are not filing as stolen vehicle is because they abide by 'processes' in which this case is a matter between you, the tow company, and the lienholder. So the officer is correct in stating that this is a civil matter.

There are no immediate 'criminal' violations to the officer to act upon and the officer cannot arrest or issue citations if the he/she was not witness to it.

The lienholder, which has be dumbfounded, holds a portion of the value of the vehicle, therefore is rightly the owner of the vehicle, which does baffle me as to why it is not recorded with the California DMV nor did the title be filed as paperless title with the lien. Although there was a technicality mistake by having only your sister on the title, the contract that your sister signed with the lienholder and the documents proving the lienholding issuing out a portion of the vehicle's value during purchase super-cedes any titling. By California registration standards, yes your sister is the legal owner, but by California Civil Codes and other federal tax and financial laws, the bank AND your sister are technically the owners.

With that aside, your case can go either way, you did have 'pain and suffering' from the incident and you may file a tort case against the lienholder and/or tow company. (although the tow company is following repo tow orders from the lienholder and more than likely the judge will discredit the tow company from the suit). And the other way it may lead in court is that the lienholder may bring documents verifying lien and verifying their entitlements to the vehicle and the judge will deem the vehicle in rightful ownership of the lienholder.

I cannot offer any other conclusions because of the nature of courts and decision ultimately results upon the judge but I hope that somewhat helps.

[nefarious986]

KT1.

Thank you for the most insightful and inflammatory reply I have received in three forums.

Truly appreciated.

I would recommend 2 things:

1) Go get the car, don't have them tow it back to your house. Anything could happen. The sooner you have it...the better.

2) Your sister should keep the title in a safe deposit box...not at home, unless you have a good fire proof, bolted to the floor safe. A safe deposit box cost <$50/year.

How can you miss payments on a car you own clear without lien?

[nefarious986]

EE3, she does not own the car clean and clear. Some mix up with out of state dealers or what not had the car titled with ONLY her name as owner.

She still is supposed to be paying the loan.

Btw, you guys are great. Just advice, no judgement. Everyone lands on hard times and miss a payment sometimes. I had this same post up at the Ferrari and I got flamed hard. I guess Ferrari owner's **************** don't stink.

Originally Posted by nefarious986

EE3, she does not own the car clean and clear. Some mix up with out of state dealers or what not had the car titled with ONLY her name as owner.

She still is supposed to be paying the loan.

Btw, you guys are great. Just advice, no judgement. Everyone lands on hard times and miss a payment sometimes. I had this same post up at the Ferrari and I got flamed hard. I guess Ferrari owner's **************** don't stink.

Trust me, I'm not judging, I have been out of work a full six months, have two interviews this week, fingers crossed. If the clean title is an error then as much as it sucks they have the right to tow. Producing a document that is erroneous won't help. I don't think you have a legal angle if I'm understanding you correctly.

Perhaps they would have given a longer grace period in better times, with the failure of lending institutions on the news every night, I'm sure the tolerance for missed payments is as low as ever. As for a Ferrari BB, what can you expect? Most of the guys who buy those are remarkably solvent, no excuse for being bastards but no shock either, good luck dude.

[Brucelee]

Sounds to me like you only issue is with the towing company, ie its rude behavior. To be fair, these guys often get assualted so they are not going to wait for your sister to go get the title, as many times, this would be a gun or knife or bat.

In the end, you have to make the payments. The rest is just plain upsetting but will likely just end up upsetting you more.

Nefarious986, many of us here are x-Ferrari owners. We got fed up with all the BS and egos, and decided to just buy a better car.

We took the proceeds of our sale and put about $15K in the bank for future RMS and IMS issues, and with the rest bought Apple stock, oil futures and Euros.

Who's laughing now?

[Lil bastard]

Agree with Brucelee.

The Loan Co. was well within it's rights if the payments were in arrears. The lack of a title naming them as lienholders does not supercede a signed contract between them and your sister and this was surely cited when filling out the repo order.

Playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment, I wonder if there isn't more to it that we don't know. Did your sister contact them and try to work things out upfront? Has she been in arrears before this? Agreed that many people get behind, especially in times like these, but Finance Cos. are not Credit Counselors, or psychologists. Their role isn't to coddle people during tough times, though many will 'work' with people rather than go the drastic and expensive step of repossesion. For many Finance Cos., who's primary responsibility is to their investors, their hands are tied in such instances because of their fiduciary responsibility to their investors.

The Tow Co. is just a go-between. They are acting upon what they accept as a legal order. 'Rude' behavior is subjective and is often cited when a person does not get the response they want to hear. They were under no requirement to wait and see and validate any paperwork your sister may, or may not, have on hand. Yes, they could care less, but again that's not the business they are in. More often than not, as Brucelee explained, things turn sour if they try to accomodate the owner. I worked one summer (while in school) as a Process Server - the 'Bad News' Mailman ! It was incredible to me the reaction of some people - I was threatened at gunpoint, even shot at once, just for being the (by Law) disinterested 3rd Party simply disemminating the paperwork. At $12 per service, there wasn't a lot in terms of personal or property abuse I was willing to endure - I usually turned and left immediately after handing them the papers. I didn't want to hear any explanations (there ALWAYS was one) because I was not a party to the dispute at all, though people often failed to recognize this.

Likewise, the Police were proper and correct in not getting involved. You're asking them to act as Judges in what is essentially only a paperwork error. These are matters for the Court, not the Police. The car was NOT stolen... the Lienholder acted within their rights.

Unless the car is damaged after the Tow, you really don't have a claim against anyone for anything. And yes, expect the Loan Co. to tack on any expense they incurred in this incident. They are entitled to do this, and somewhere in the Loan paperwork (fine print), your sister was both notified, and agreed, to this.

Sorry to say that the Finance Co. was acting upon their clear interest in the vehicle, even though there was no title stating that right (the Loan Paperwork probably states that your Sister has the responsibility to have the Lienholder named on the Title...and the Insurance for that matter. Her failure to acquire this, that does not eliminate the Loan Co.'s interest).

It's not that I'm unfeeling for your frustration, but it's probably in your best interest to forget the whole thing and devote your energy and resources to aiding your sister in avoiding any future incident instead of trying to 'Prove' you're right... because you're not.

Hope both you, and your sister's, lot improves.

[Topless]

Yep,
As I understand it the loan documents supercede all title documents especially if they were filed in error. If it were my car I would get the payments current today. pick up my car, have a long, slow, cold beer in a frosted mug and chalk this day off as one lousy thorn in a bed of roses.

Going to battle with a towing company is an exercise in futility. Those guys just love a good bloody brawl. Even if you prevail the process will be so painful it will take 5 years off your life. Surely you have more interesting ways to spend your time.

[renzop]

Sorry to be judgemental but the suggestion that somehow an error in paperwork supercedes an agreement between your sister and the loan company is sad and irresponsible.

My take is that your sister missed two loan payments and the car was repossessed. She signed a loan agreement for a secured loan. The loan security was the car. She has some incorrect paperwork that says she owns the car free and clear. But that is meaningless.

She owed someone money and didn't pay. She lost her car. Tough luck. Take responsibility for your actions. I hate it when people try to take advantage of someone else's error.

[CJ_Boxster]

Originally Posted by nefarious986

EE3, she does not own the car clean and clear. Some mix up with out of state dealers or what not had the car titled with ONLY her name as owner.

She still is supposed to be paying the loan.

Btw, you guys are great. Just advice, no judgement. Everyone lands on hard times and miss a payment sometimes. I had this same post up at the Ferrari and I got flamed hard. I guess Ferrari owner's **************** don't stink.

You didnt know... There farts smell like fresh baked bread, lol jk in most auto forums there are lurkers that arent there to help anyone but more less want to feel superior and get off subject to prove a meaningless point they are just dying to make. We use to have acouple here but they are gone now.

[Perfectlap]

Originally Posted by bmussatti

Nefarious986, many of us here are x-Ferrari owners. We got fed up with all the BS and egos, and decided to just buy a better car.

We took the proceeds of our sale and put about $15K in the bank for future RMS and IMS issues, and with the rest bought Apple stock, oil futures and Euros.

Who's laughing now?

Did somebody say Apple Stock?!

tip o' the day. S-c-h-l-u-m-b-e-r-g-e-r (SLB) $95
They report on Friday July 18th. One analyst just raised the target to $150 or something. Those analysts are usually never bearish enough or not bullish enough. If they beat numbers and report higher guidance You'll be on a 50% gain within a year.

[Paul]

Some of us also bought FINL at $1.65 in January.....

[rick3000]

I invested some spare change in Apple last year. I should have bought more, because it's increased by 40%. It's at $170 right now, and the year end estimate is $200-220.

[Paul]

FINL $1.65 in Jan, $9.52 today...... :dance:

[fragdude]

Lot of pressure on the iPhone right now. We will have to see how much of blackberry's sales are diverted to Apple. If I had the money I would def. buy some Apple stock or some future options on it, especially if it keeps getting these great reviews "best phone ever!"

If you want some money in 3-5 years you can try investing in Financial Service stock...

[Tool Pants]

I have played a lawyer for 27 years.

When you are young and starting out and work for someone, you get the weird stuff. A friend of the boss.

100 years ago.

Client said his white Ford was missing from the work parking lot at the end of the work day. He called the police to report it stolen, who said it was towed for not making the loan payments.

Problem was, he had no loan. Towed the wrong car out of a parking lot. All those white Fords look the same.

I do not remember how that case ended up. I think I sued the tow company for conversion and settled.

[LoveBunny]

Originally Posted by CJ_Boxster

You didnt know... There farts smell like fresh baked bread, lol jk in most auto forums there are lurkers that arent there to help anyone but more less want to feel superior and get off subject to prove a meaningless point they are just dying to make. We use to have acouple here but they are gone now.

I just joined a Ferrari forum. I wonder if it's the same one. I'm starting to feel like I'm living on welfare when I look at the pictures of everyone's cars there though.

to the OP, sorry I can't give you any advice. Sounds like it could be a fun thing to take on the Judge Mathes show though. Yeah, I'm always trying to get people to go on that show. I figure eventually somebody will and then I can say I knew someone on Judge Mathes.