Deeeeeppp Trouble!

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

These threads always amaze me. Some owner breaks the Sound Barrier, gets caught, and is instantly hit with the reality of their actions. What did you think would happen?

I guess part of me wants to see the book thrown at you. At least that would be my leaning if I heard a news report of some kid driving a Sports Car in excess of 100 MPH on a public street. People doing what you did kill and maim other people every day and they never thought it could happen to them either, until it does.

But, because we know you, we're all supposed to sympathize with your situation and give you all kinds of advice on how to get out of it.

It's interesting that you seem more concerned with your Parents finding out than you are with the legal ramifications of what you've done. Maybe they're a system which can't be beat.

While it isn't going down all that smoothly, I do hope you come out of this OK. And also, that you learned to confine your 70+ MPH activity to the Track where it belongs and appreciate the meaning of Impulse Control the next time you get the urge to take a speed challenge...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

____________________
As unklekraker said, he fessed up and appears to have learned. I have seen a few young folk in court more worried about their parents then they are the judge. This may be TriGem's scenario. Let's hope he learned, but again he posted for advice, not lambasting.

This reminds me of the first capital case I ever tried. After we were done with a week's worth of witnesses and rested my case, the defense attorney came to me, shook my hand and said, "Jeff, you did a great job, and win or lose, at least tonight you and I are not going to prison for the rest of our lives."

Agree with you Jeff, MN Boxster almost makes it sound like Trigem was being malicious when it's clear he was being capricious. What's the difference? Intent! Speeding tickets are bull**************** items whose only purpose is to make money. In my state, a Trooper died chasing a motorcycle in a Tahoe at 100 plus. The kid is in state pen but talk to any officer and they will tell you chasing a mcy with a Tahoe at 100 plus is just plain stupid. The recklessness is on both sides. Finally, being in medicine, I see people driving that have no business walking. Suffering dementia or worse, frankly I'll take my chances with a kid with a sports car and good reflexes trying to have a good time. You can bet that if Trigem had a tin to display the outcome would have been different, the county's laws are full of hypocrisy.

It's also true he asked specifically not to be castigated in his first post.

[yellowbox]

so how much does traffic attorney typically charges? if you haven't done traffic school, wouldn't it be better to pay the fine and pay for traffic school to avoid seeing the judge?? I guess if you got a misdeamonor, that's a diff story.

Originally Posted by yellowbox

so how much does traffic attorney typically charges? if you haven't done traffic school, wouldn't it be better to pay the fine and pay for traffic school to avoid seeing the judge?? I guess if you got a misdeamonor, that's a diff story.

Whatever the lawyer charges is far and away better than risking the outcome at this speed. The fees contrasted againsts fines and insurance increases will seem cheap in retrospect.

[savowood]

A lot of what will happen depends on what already happened.

Did you admit to speeding to the officer? What's here on this forum doesn't matter. What you said directly to the officer is what matters.

If you didn't admit to it to the officer, then you might actually get off. The officer stated he "got you on RADAR". Basically, he doesn't know what he got on his RADAR. It was something, but since he can't see the beam, he doesn't know what it was. He can make a reasonable guess, but since there were two vehicles in range, you might be able to get out of it. Tell the judge you weren't going the speed indicated. You were going faster, but you don't have to tell him that. It's that whole self-incrimination thing. You just need to provide a reasonable doubt that the RADAR displayed the speed YOU were going. If I remember your account correctly, you began slowing down and the BMW passed you. I'm guessing it passed you pretty quickly. Depending on timing, angles, field of view, etc., you stand a good chance of getting off. But, if you're not confident in your appearance and demeanor, you'll get crushed. Get an attorney to help you out. The money you spend on the attorney is going to be less than you'll spend on insurance over the next few years.

Now, go find a group that does track events and confine your high-speed endeavors to the track.

That being said, I should take my own advice. However, since I actually teach to many different law enforcement agencies around the area, I know many of the patrol officers and I usually get a "Oh, it's you!" followed shortly thereafter by a "Have a nice day." If I don't, I hopefully know someone who can help.

The biggest thing to remember is, don't admit to anything on the side of the road. The cop is going to write up the whole incident with decent accuracy right after you pull away. If you admitted to the incident, it'll be in the notes.

-Michael

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by yellowbox

so how much does traffic attorney typically charges? if you haven't done traffic school, wouldn't it be better to pay the fine and pay for traffic school to avoid seeing the judge?? I guess if you got a misdeamonor, that's a diff story.

_________________

I think at this point his main concern is not money or insurance but suspension. That's the kicker.

[cfos]

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

Agree with you Jeff, MN Boxster almost makes it sound like Trigem was being malicious when it's clear he was being capricious. What's the difference? Intent! Speeding tickets are bull**************** items whose only purpose is to make money. In my state, a Trooper died chasing a motorcycle in a Tahoe at 100 plus. The kid is in state pen but talk to any officer and they will tell you chasing a mcy with a Tahoe at 100 plus is just plain stupid.

Perhaps, if the guy on the bike wasn't being "capricious", the cop wouldn't have died. Likewise, out o curiosity was "speeding" the only crime that caused the chase or was there more to being capricious? Or is behavior "capricious" as long as no bodily harm occurs? Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid; I agree with MNBoxster as a matter of point.

Originally Posted by cfos

Perhaps, if the guy on the bike wasn't being "capricious", the cop wouldn't have died. Likewise, out o curiosity was "speeding" the only crime that caused the chase or was there more to being capricious? Or is behavior "capricious" as long as no bodily harm occurs? Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid; I agree with MNBoxster as a matter of point.

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

[David N.]

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

Originally Posted by David N.

Just noticed the chase argument. There was another case in Florida where a camaro trooper was chasing a sportbike at 100+ and the camaro ended up hitting another car and killing the cop and a civilian. The Sportbiker turned himself in and now they want to convict him with double homicide.

I'm not weighing in on the righteousness of that conviction, but rather that despite the danger of a bike going 100+, chasing him at 100+ is highly questionable. The state of Florida has 'no chase' policies, so they leave it for the choppers to keep tabs while the cops stay back. In this case the cop violated and the biker is having to pay. Was pulling over a sportbike worth the danger? I'll leave it up to you guys to have an opinion.

-David

David,

Remember he's not chasing a rapist or murderer, he's chasing a guy to ticket him, the chase becomes all about adrenaline. A corvette blew by my cousins undercover car one day and he didn't even try to chase it. He said, look at the lead he already has, it's red and I got the first two digits, I'll see him again, that's the right choice for sure...

[Grizzly]

@ TriGem. It's a shame the Officers didn't get the BMW. 154 miles an hour, in a speed contest, in a car also occupied by his wife??? That's friggin' stupid. Was the baby strapped in her car seat also??? That would complete the picture, wouldn't it?

If you decide to kill yourself, whatever, but don't take out your loved ones when you go. I can't tell you how many times I've seen these young boys mash up their sport bikes with their girlfriends on the back. WTF???

Be very careful taking some of this advice. Trying to place blame on the BMW is basically admitting that you were drag racing and asking for a whole lot more trouble than you already have.

As far as telling your parents about what happened? I think it's a good idea. Better to get in front of it now and get it over with. Your Dad's going to find out sooner or later. You might as well be the one to tell him. If he finds out by some other means, and realizes that you've hidden something or deceived him, that adds a whole other dimension, and potentially damages your relationship. It's not worth the scant possibility that he won't find out.

On the issue of chases vs. no chases, I can see both sides of the argument, but I will tell you this. If I'm a bad guy and I know the cops can't chase me, I'm going to run. And I'll remain free to victimize someone else. Maybe the offender is only running from the traffic violation - maybe not. The only way to find out is to run him down, catch him and beat it out of him...um, um, um, I mean ask him nicely, after reading him his Miranda rights and buying him a cold soda.

Are all chases smart? No. Are some chases necessary? Absolutely. The problem is knowing when a chase has become too dangerous and being able to cut it off. At that point, competent supervision becomes imperative. When you're chasing a bad guy, you get tunnel vision. Your adrenaline gets up and you become as intent on catching him, as he is on escaping you. As well as you may know the rules, judgement can become clouded when the chase is in full swing. That's when a good supervisor, monitoring the radio traffic, is necessary to bring things back into perspective. Some chases should continue due to the nature of the crime. Some should end, sooner rather than later.

[cfos]

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Well, well, well *L* Obviously you weren't a "gunner" in medical school *LOL*

Here is my direct quote:

"Personally, I don't think speeding tickets and speed limits are stupid;..."

Where am I saying speed limits are stupid? Nowhere. I'm just including my opinion of them along with the opinion I hold for speeding tickets.

As for NY drivers, forgive me, I haven't lived in the Tri-state area since the late 90s and I sometimes forget how everyone there is so much more busy and important than the rest of Amerika. It is a shame about the officer that lost their life. Not being one (like you), I don't imagine I know what I'd do if I was faced with such a thing as a capricious youth on a cycle. I'd be concerned that he might cause an accident and HOPE that if I gave chase with sirens that the speeder would do the "right" thing, like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe.

Finally, just a point about arguments. You end with a fallacy that is generally referenced as "an appeal to authority". I mean, it's all well and good that you have family and know people in law enforcement, but seriously, just because they speed... that doesn't make it right or would you argue it does? Do you run the red light at 2 am because nobody else is up and the 4-way intersection is clear? I don't know.

Edit: Not sure about the murderer or rapist charges as we are currently looking at 2 cases of motorbike infractions nationwide. I do wonder though, do murderers and rapists drive their getaway cars more slowly? Or does that change the "chase mentality" making it more justified?

[Ray]

TriGem,

Just glad that neither you nor the public were injured in that type of speed! I think you have to be very lucky:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/caspeed.pdf

If you read the >=100mph section you will find that they could have impounded your vehicle for 6 months as well. (Starts pg 29)

Tell your dad asap... don't let that fester or your dad will wonder about any other things you may or may not have done.

Best of luck to you, join your local Porsche club and take it to the track!

[TriGem2k]

" like our friend TriGem who may have only been mildly deceptive (?) when trying to exit. Obviously, we'll never know, but that is what I choose to believe."

CFOS - What is that supposed to mean? I didn't exit the highway nor change lanes until the Officer was on my tail with Lights and Sounds. If I had any thought of getting away why would I even slow down from 154MPH? What are the chances the officer would have got me if I continued that speed and maybe took an exit 5-10miles down the road?

Come on don't put words in my mouth or assume things I haven't said.

FrankPatrick - That’s the same thing I read on the CA DMV website. I just hope they don't go with the 30days license suspension.

Husker - I did not post this thread thinking "I can't believe I got caught" or "I hate law enforcement". I admit wrong therefore did man up to what has been done. Now just trying to figure out the best approach to be able to keep my driving privilege

[MNBoxster]

Originally Posted by DrRoentgen

I didn't say speed limits were stupid, you did. I said that speeding, in general is a fee fishing expedition. Everyone in NY is doing 80 on the highway, posted speed is 65, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Oh and speeding was the only crime in the NY trooper case, I've never been through police training and I know you don't try to run down an excellent motorcycle driver with a truck, that trooper is lucky he didn't wipe out a family of six. Lastly, I have family in federal law enforcement, local law enforcement and Sheriff dept. They all speed when they are not on duty, go figure...

Hi,

I think the wrong perspective is being taken in this. No, no one here wants to see this kid suffer unecessarily, that's been said by almost everyone.

But, this infraction was not such as you describe - being pulled over the limit by the flow of traffic, or not noticing how fast one was going. Nor was the lister culled out of a herd of fast traffic by a Cop with an attitude toward Porsches, or a desire to swell the State coffers.

This was a deliberate decision to accept a throwdown from the driver of the BMW and knowingly exceed the legal limit. Those are two entirely different things.

I hope TG2K doesn't have to pay too severe a penalty for his poor judgement - something we have all been guilty of from time-to-time, especially in our youth.

But, this is now one of his life's experiences. One from which he can draw when making future (hopefully better) decisions.

One can only hope that the contrition which he now seems to be sincerely displaying will not fade over time, or become diluted if he's fortunate enough to avoid the harshest penalties, which we all hope for...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

[Patto]

Originally Posted by MNBoxster

Hi,

I think the wrong perspective is being taken in this. No, no one here wants to see this kid suffer unecessarily, that's been said by almost everyone.

But, this infraction was not such as you describe - being pulled over the limit by the flow of traffic, or not noticing how fast one was going. Nor was the lister culled out of a herd of fast traffic by a Cop with an attitude toward Porsches, or a desire to swell the State coffers.

This was a deliberate decision to accept a throwdown from the driver of the BMW and knowingly exceed the legal limit. Those are two entirely different things.

I hope TG2K doesn't have to pay too severe a penalty for his poor judgement - something we have all been guilty of from time-to-time, especially in our youth.

But, this is now one of his life's experiences. One from which he can draw when making future (hopefully better) decisions.

One can only hope that the contrition which he now seems to be sincerely displaying will not fade over time, or become diluted if he's fortunate enough to avoid the harshest penalties, which we all hope for...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Well said Jim.

A similar thing happend to me many years ago and I lost my license for 6 months and paid a hefty fine. In hindsight it was the best thing that happened to me as I've not done something that stupid again. It was also the catalyst for a very big life change but that's another story. Worse thing that 'could' have happened was I hurt someone else. A fine and a suspension is small price to pay in comparison.

Not trying to bash on you TG2K, you know you did something stupid as you've stated. Just be glad you're lucky enough to get a fine and possible suspension. If you were in Australia especially NSW as young driver doing that speed you'd be locked up and your car taken away for sure.

[David N.]

Did anyone say...Trial by Declaration? Haha, just kidding, still haven't heard back on mine..

Infraction is definitely better, misdemeanor starts getting into Reckless Driving, which yea adds points and more serious license suspensions. Although wow, 22348(b), didn't know they even gave those tickets out, haha. Let us know what the fine is, if you go to court and ask for traffic school, explain your perfect record and that the straight line road conditions with nobody else around you had no frame of reference and just happened to be going fast. They will probably knock it down a notch to one point and less fine.

-David

[husker boxster]

James,

You sound sincere and you are doing the right thing - manning up. There was a speeding ticket thread a couple of months ago and all the guy did was blame everyone but himself. We need to remember we're responsible and accountable for our actions.

That said, I agree with Burg. Talk to your Dad. Say "Dad, I've done something stupid and I need your help". With an opening line like that, a speeding ticket may not be the first thing he thinks of. Certainly he will be mad but will assist you.

If your representation cannot work out a plea bargain and you have to stand in front of a judge, I would suggest saying something like, "Sir, I am very sorry, I have learned my lesson, and I am thankful no one was hurt by my actions". Judges see a lot of smart alec human debris flow past their bench every day. A little humility may go a long way. Then live by those words.

I wouldn't heed the advice of members who say buy a radar detector. We can save that for another thread, but they are not the answer. The cat eventually catches the mouse. Respect the laws or be willing to accept the consequences.

Your experience is exactly why I've resisted the need to go on the north side of triple digits. People ask me all the time how fast she goes. I just say the speedo goes up to 180mph.

Good luck, James.

Terry

[David N.]

"There was a speeding ticket thread a couple of months ago and all the guy did was blame everyone but himself."

Posted by husker boxster



I heard that. Oh the judgements!

-David

[j.fro]

I think the board is being very supportive. Nice work, we all get a little "spirited" at times.
Hey TriGem2K, here's some advice: when the dust settles, join PCA or SCCA, or something and get yourself to an autocross, track day, or DE once a month or more. It will get all the woo-hoo out of your system. The limits to which you can push your Boxster on the track are so much greater than what you would ever consider on the street that blasting like you did on the highway becomes a "but why??" situation.