Some one tried to break in last night!!!!!

[husker boxster]

In the last 3 mo we've had 3 news-worthy break-ins in Omaha. They all followed the same pattern:

- The intruder was high on crack or pcp. Evidently they get very warm in this condition so they strip naked before they go intruding. People, it's been COLD here the last 3 mo. Running around naked at night in the middle of winter is not good for the extremities.

- They seem to gain strength in this condition. One intruder required 6 officers to be subdued. Another was shot 4 times before he even slowed down.

- Then the mother appears on TV crying about the loss of her blessed angel. One even said her kid was trying to kick the drugs. Yeah right, I'm sure he was breaking in to a stranger's house in the middle of the night to ask for directions to the nearest rehab center.

Grizz is right, you better be ready to fire several rounds. They are not in a normal state of mind and it will take a lot of force to subdue them. I don't own a gun and hopefully won't need to, but you have to do what makes you feel safe.

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by husker boxster

In the last 3 mo we've had 3 news-worthy break-ins in Omaha. They all followed the same pattern:

- The intruder was high on crack or pcp. Evidently they get very warm in this condition so they strip naked before they go intruding. People, it's been COLD here the last 3 mo. Running around naked at night in the middle of winter is not good for the extremities.

- They seem to gain strength in this condition. One intruder required 6 officers to be subdued. Another was shot 4 times before he even slowed down.

- Then the mother appears on TV crying about the loss of her blessed angel. One even said her kid was trying to kick the drugs. Yeah right, I'm sure he was breaking in to a stranger's house in the middle of the night to ask for directions to the nearest rehab center.

Grizz is right, you better be ready to fire several rounds. They are not in a normal state of mind and it will take a lot of force to subdue them. I don't own a gun and hopefully won't need to, but you have to do what makes you feel safe.

Not with a .45, it was designed to kill people hopped up on dope in WW2. Apparently the .38 was not stopping the enemies as they were high on some drug I forgot the entire story, hence the birth of the .45. Throw a gold dot round in there and I don't care if you hit the shoulder the perp is on the way to the floor. I also have a Remington 1120 semi, as Bruce noted you don't have to aim with sleepy eyes when you have a shotgun. Instead of the glass of wine find a kitchen knife and put it in the dead guy's hand, then call the po po

[kelly1005]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

1) Your best chance to instantly stop someone is not a center mass shot or a headshot (that you won't make).

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

[FrayAdjacent]

I wouldn't go as far as saying 'if you're not going to train, avoid weapons'.

I haven't gone to a DE. Should I avoid Porsches?
Formal training IS an asset... but not a requirement.

I have no formal training with any of my weapons... but I don't think that mattered when I came in 3rd out of 57 shooters in a local IDPA match. I did so through making myself familiar with my weapon, how it shoots, how to reload quickly, and all that.

I'd say it like this - if you're not willing to learn how to use a weapon (through formal training or otherwise), THEN you probably should reconsider having one.

[kelly1005]

Originally Posted by FrayAdjacent

I have no formal training with any of my weapons... but I don't think that mattered when I came in 3rd out of 57 shooters in a local IDPA match. I did so through making myself familiar with my weapon, how it shoots, how to reload quickly, and all that.

You're right, I updated my line to include practice.

I just don't like the idea that people seem to get that they can buy a gun, throw it in a drawer, and suddenly it will save them if needed. That's how innocents get hurt/killed and it's what the media thrives on.

[FrayAdjacent]

You ARE right about that. A gun isn't a magic talisman that wards off evil. It's a tool, and one has to know how to use a tool!

Originally Posted by kelly1005

You're right, I updated my line to include practice.

I just don't like the idea that people seem to get that they can buy a gun, throw it in a drawer, and suddenly it will save them if needed. That's how innocents get hurt/killed and it's what the media thrives on.

[Ghostrider 310]

I like the colts, I have four. I also have a Baretta too and it's a great gun. I have several family members in law enforcement, one on the federal level. The fed has a glock and my cousin carries a S&W on the local force. Heckler & Koch is a fine weapon too as is the sig sauer. The fed was a Seal team member, he could shoot you dead with any of the above, skill means a lot, brands don't.

[Brucelee]

. "I also have a Remington 1120 semi, as Bruce noted you don't have to aim with sleepy eyes when you have a shotgun. Instead of the glass of wine find a kitchen knife and put it in the dead guy's hand, then call the po po"

Can I have the wine AFTER I put the knife in the guys hand?

[Ghostrider 310]

Originally Posted by Brucelee

. "I also have a Remington 1120 semi, as Bruce noted you don't have to aim with sleepy eyes when you have a shotgun. Instead of the glass of wine find a kitchen knife and put it in the dead guy's hand, then call the po po"

Can I have the wine AFTER I put the knife in the guys hand?

Absolutely, my dad was a deputy sheriff worked with a local judge for 25 years. It was actually the judge who told me to put a weapon in the dudes hand, go figure. He has since past away but his reasoning was sound.

[Brucelee]

My brother (retired cop) recommended the 18" shotgun to me, pref a pump 10 guage. However, we debated the pump vs the double barrel.

Either way, you can pretty much be a crappy shot and hit the entire front door just as the perp enters.

Now, here in CA, I would have to hire a defense atty as it isn't clearly legal to kill someone who just knocked down your front door.

Go figure! I'm moving soon, so to H,, with CA.

[Ghostrider 310]

Not legal to kill intruders in NY either, deadly force can only be used when confronted with deadly force. then you have the intangible of a jury, I like the knife idea a lot. Even better if we all never have to choose.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by kelly1005

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

If you are suggesting that there are guys who can take two rounds from a 10 guage shotgun and keep coming, hey, I'd like to see those guys.

But, you may be right!

[Ghostrider 310]

Actually the coolest move I ever saw was the seal being screwed with by my cousin in the lake. Next thing I knew Bob had him totally underwater, out of sight with his legs only, just smiling as he appeared to be recreating in the water like everyone else. I can tell you this, what those guys can do in the water is astounding.

[FrayAdjacent]

I'm glad Texas is a 'Castle Doctrine' state.

You break into my house for ANY reason, I'm well within my rights to ventilate you. I like it that way... it's a deterrent to hot home invasions.

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by dbth

Dude , I'm glad the danger has passed and that your family is OK.
Law of averages dictates that unless you run with a sketchy crowd,you are well past your lifetime chances of psycho intruders.

Gun control is a hot button issue , I guess bleeding the heart crowd has the night off ,or is keeping quiet in fear of getting shouted (or gunned) down.

Too bad those poor auxiliary officers murdered in NYC last nighty were unarmed...

This thread turned crazy , glad race analysis was not a factor.

_________________________________________

Being born and raised in the Greater NY area, I'm familiar with attitudes about the hot topic of gun control. My parents were part of that crowd. But think about this: the same crowd which hates government, hates terror spy-tapping, hates the war, hates the patriot act, hates most capitalism, and "loves" "free speech" is the same crowd willing to cede the government sole monopoly having all firearms.

p.s. The following is predicated on stereotypes, either true or percieved, of course.

[dmcutter]

After reading everyone's preferences for home defense weapons, I would like to point out how important a flashlight is. The new gen weapons lights like the Surefire X200 are blindingly bright and will at the very least make a perp flinch and ruin his night vision. Most importantly, though, is it allows positive target identification. I have night sights on all my pistols, but you want to make sure you aren't shooting your teenager when he sneaks back into the house in the middle of the night. And another cool thing about them is that at short (read defensive) ranges, point of impact is pretty close to the focus of the light, so it's point and shoot which is easier than trying to take aim which you won't be able to do under stress unless you train that way all the time.

[jeffsquire]

Originally Posted by dmcutter

After reading everyone's preferences for home defense weapons, I would like to point out how important a flashlight is. The new gen weapons lights like the Surefire X200 are blindingly bright and will at the very least make a perp flinch and ruin his night vision. Most importantly, though, is it allows positive target identification. I have night sights on all my pistols, but you want to make sure you aren't shooting your teenager when he sneaks back into the house in the middle of the night. And another cool thing about them is that at short (read defensive) ranges, point of impact is pretty close to the focus of the light, so it's point and shoot which is easier than trying to take aim which you won't be able to do under stress unless you train that way all the time.

________________________

Funny you should mention flashlights. The new LED technology arrived to flashlights recently and I'm absolutely amazed. There are alot of manufacturers but MAGlite has these new flashlights and they are incredibly bright and last 4x longer than incandescent bulbs. I bought 2 of them recenlty and very, very pleased. 2d battery and aa battery size.

NOTE: I nor anyone I know is a stockholder, nor do I have any pecuniary interest in Maglite.

[Dr. Kill]

I agree with Grizzly about layers of defense. That is always the best approach to mitigate any risk. For detective controls, a loud home alarm and a barking dog are a good first line of defense:
1) It let’s the intruder know they are detected and gives them a chance to rethink their actions before the stakes go up.
2) The detective controls alert you to the threat and buy you time to locate a weapon (corrective control)
You obviously don’t want to have to shoot anyone, but having that option is a good piece of mind and might be the only thing that can save your family.

In terms of weapons, I would stay away from the .22, 9mm, and even 10mm. They tend to put holes in people, but go out the other side. A nice .357, .40, or ,.45 typically do a better job of transferring more kinetic energy to your attacker and that translates to stopping power.

I would also not recommend a shotgun. Yes the sound of a 12 gauge pumping is a good deterrent in and of itself, and if you do line up a good shot, you will likely paint the wall with your attacker, but in my experience clearing rooms, I would want something much much shorter – picture coming around a corner and running into your attacker at less than arm’s length – I would take an pistol over a shotgun any day in that scenario.

An MP5 would be my weapon of choice in reclaiming my house, but most of us (including me these days) do not have access to such a wonderful tool. In the absence of that, a good old fashioned M1911A1 or .45 revolver should be all that is needed.

[Grizzly]

MP-5. I've been carrying one since we transitioned away from the uzi in the late 80's. Others on the team carry the P-90. I did some testing on a new experimental weapon last year, but by the time the Government makes the switch, I'll be retired and dead.

I just wanted to offer a comment on flashlights. While I agree with the power to blind your adversary and certainly to identify your target, you need to be very careful about how to handle your flashlight so that it doesn't get you killed.

First, and most importantly, never hold the flashlight in front of your body, or attach it to your weapon. I know you see it on TV all the time, but don't do it unless you're willing to practice room clearing for several hours a day. If you hold the flashlight in front of your body and confront an armed attacker, he will fire at the light and catch you in the chest. Hold the flashlight in your off hand, as far away (out to the side) from your body as you can, slightly in front and above you so that you don't sillouette yourself with your own light.

Second, don't turn the flashlight on and leave it on as you clear your house. Get one with the push button on/off. Turn it on for quick flashes, look at what you want to see, turn it off and MOVE. The bad guy will fire where he saw you last. Don't be there.

If your situation ends in gunfire, shoot and move, shoot and move, shoot and move. Move laterally, not forward and backward. Do not stand flatfooted and fight it out. Keep moving. Learn the difference between cover and concealment and use available cover whenever possible. Only leave cover if you've identified better cover elsewhere. Always point your weapon where you are looking, just like you were pointing your finger. Don't point the gun at the ceiling or floor like the TV detectives. By the time you acquire your target that way, you'll be screwed.

[CJ_Boxster]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I hate to say it, but CJ is dead wrong about a .22 bouncing and around causing damage.

LOL dang, why do i have to be "dead wrong", why cant i just be "wrong" haha

Reason i said the bouncing thing about the rounds is that in the past when asked about my firearm, the gun store helper or whoever has mentioned that bouncing thing. So i figure its probably true but guess its a myth.... Grizzly, would you say thats "Myth Busted"?

I'd likely aim for the head with the first 2 rounds and unload the next 8 rounds into the body, Im pretty sure i could stop any burgler unless they are on PCP, then ill have to wrestle that mofo down... wonder if they make a knife attachment for my utility rail on the 22.?