Some one tried to break in last night!!!!!

[cfos]

CJ -- *LOL* I think I was writing my post as yours was getting posted! Let me rephrase, I agree with all that has been said regarding the shotgun as a choice for home self defense. Personally, I don't want to shoot anyone nor any animal, except perhaps when playing Gears of War. Of course, should my brother-in-law take out a buck or two, I don't mind that tasty deer sausage.

[CJ_Boxster]

I feel the same way about shoting a human or animal as you do, i had a dream years ago that i shot a person in self defence and i was depressed in the dream and depressed all day when i woke up.

HOWEVER i also had a dream that i was on an ultra exclusive island where all the worlds political figures and even terrorist hung-out regardless of current event and I tricked Bin laden into being my buddy and after i left the island he came to my house to pick me up to hang out and i killed him and his bodygaurd and i woke up happy LOL i know, weird dream that i can atribute to playing Socom III way too much about a year ago.

[cfos]

Sounds like you have a lot better recall on your dreams. Mine are usually gone before I get my first cup o coffee. *L*

We live in the front of a nice neighborhood in my town (a nice house), so a certain company (starts with an A and ends in a T) contacted us and gave us a free security system as long as we advertise their sign in front of the house. We got window break sensors on all windows, sensors on all doors, smoke detector hooked to alarm, and remote fobs for arming and disarming the system. We got this all free and we only pay like 20 bucks a month for the service. We didnt go looking for this, they contacted us. So unless you live in a real upscale place at the head of a swanky neighborhood Id just go ahead and buy the system and a AK47.

[cfos]

At his contract, I don't think I could afford Andrei Kirilenko in addition to the security system! *L* (sorry, a Utah joke).

[JAAY]

Alright, so now atleast if I need to form a militia, This is the place to do it. I am going to have a few companies come in and give me there estimates and what not. As for a fire arm in my home, I like the idea of maybe a 9mm or something that can go in a safe. I have no kids but I do not want to be tempted to take out my neighbors dog in the middle of the night or blow out my plasma when I can't find the remote in the middle of the night. As for my house being secure with locks and all, it is like for knox. My girl makes fun of me but I sleep better knowing that all is locked up. As for a gun fight in the street in my community the only thing that happens here is old people in motorized chairs. So no wheel chairs doing a roll by. As for the suffolk county comment??? Do you know how big suffolk county is? There are bad parts of any County. As for my area I live, on the water on the north shore out east of long island. Old people, lambos, and well I guess Crack Heads. Thanks all for your posts.. Cheered me up for bit.
J

[Grizzly]

Boy, this could get long...

The original question was about a burglary attempt and thoughts on alarms, etc. , so I'll start there.

This is how a monitored alarm system functions where I am: The alarm is triggered, for whatever reason. The alarm signal is sent to the monitoring company and is answered in turn (1 min). First, the alarm company phones the residence to ask the homeowner if the alarm is real or false (1 min). Assuming there is no answer, the alarm company phones the Police Department and speaks to the call taker, passing on the pertinent information (2 mins). The call taker passes the information on to the dispatcher by CAD (1 min). Because it's an alarm and not a breaking in progress call from a distressed homeowner, it is placed at the bottom of "the stack" behind all previous 911 calls. When it comes to the top of the stack, and two cars are available, it is dispatched (12 mins). The Police respond from wherever they happen to be in the District "routine response" (15 minutes on a good night). Thirty two minutes have passed since the alarm was triggered. I'm not knocking the Police or the alarm companies, that's just how it works. In thirty-two minutes, the burglar has robbed, raped, pillaged and is on his way. The monitored alarm is typically not very successful and the Police don't take them overly seriously because 90+% of monitored alarm calls are false alarms. A call for help from a panicked homeowner is a completely different story and the Police will be there, ready to rock.

So what works? Well, there are a few things criminals hate, mainly light and noise. Motion detector lights are good and they're cheap. Wire a couple of motions to the corners of your house with powerful spots to flood your backyard. Also, put your front porch light on motion. Next, be sure that there are no hiding spots on your property. Clean up any junk you have in your yard, and trim your bushes and trees and stuff from in front of your windows and doors, so that a criminal can't hide while trying to jimmy his way in, or worse, waiting for you to get home.

Next, install good deadbolt locks. Any lock can be breached, but make it as difficult, time consuming and noisy as you can and you'll deter most bad guys. Remember that if your doors have glass or there is a window within arm's reach of the door, you'll need to install double cylinder deadbolts. Otherwise, the guy can punch out one pane of glass, reach in and turn the lock. As important as installing good locks is actually locking them. You'd be surprised how many people leave their doors, windows and cars unlocked. Duh.

As an aside, while we're talking about cars, don't leave your car anywhere outside with a garage door opener in it, especially in plain sight, like the sunvisor. If I get the garage door opener and push the button, I'm in the garage and out of sight where I can work. Get a keychain remote and keep it with you.

Now, if you want to install an alarm, get a self contained unit with multiple sirens from Hell. Wire up all basement and first floor doors and windows and any other window that can be reached by climbing. Learn to use the alarm correctly so you never set it off by accident. That way when it does go off, your neighbors will look to see what the Hell that noise is and call for help.

Also, as Vouvoune said, you can get ADT alarm signs and window decals from ebay. While the monitored alarms are not terribly effective, the signs are. Given the choice between a house with a sign and one without, the bad guy will typically choose the house without.

A barking dog will deter criminals as well, regardless of their size. Another cool trick, whether you have a dog or not, is to get a giant dog house, some giant dog bowls and a giant dog chain for your yard. Tie the dog chain to a tree and leave it on the ground. Let the burglar try to figure out where that big son-of-a-******************** is.

There's lots of other stuff, but that should get you started. It's all about layers of protection. If you make them jump through enough hoops, they'll go elsewhere.

About the guns...

I hate to say it, but CJ is dead wrong about a .22 bouncing and around causing damage. It's not a good choice for home protection. The .22 is small and travels fast. When it hits the body, it travels right through and doesn't do a whole lot of damage. Assassins like them, but that's because they're very quiet and the assassin is taking a headshot from a protected position, in an environment that he controls. Making that shot after being startled out of sleep in the middle of the night...well, that ain't gonna happen. You don't have to get fancy with home protection. Any .38, .357, 9mm .40 loaded with hollowpoints will do. Be sure that you and every other adult in the house knows exactly how to use it, and under stressful circumstances. For God's sake keep it out of the reach of children, yours and everyone else's. The key with a handgun is practice, practice, practice.

Here's a tip on shooting people. They do not go down like on TV. They do not fly across the room and crash into walls and stuff. They stay up and keep right on coming. I don't care what you're shooting them with. Even people who are obviously mortally wounded will continue to come and will do a whole lot of damage before they finally expire. There are two ways to deal with this, and they are not mutually exclusive.

1) Your best chance to instantly stop someone is not a center mass shot or a headshot (that you won't make). Your best chance is an abdomen shot. First, it will evacuate the attackers lungs quicker than a center mass hit will, like being punched in the gut. Second, the body's natural reaction is to double over, which will stop forward progress. Third, it is so excruciatingly painful that only the most determined attacker can continue much farther.

2) Keep firing until the threat is neutralized. By that I mean, don't fire once and think it's over; it's not. Keep firing until the threat goes down and doesn't get up.

Hope I helped.

Oh ya, and to add to griz, shoot to kill. Seriously, if you dont kill them they will sue you to kingdom come. Any tiny loophole and a good lawyer will get you if you dont have a gun license or something stupid. They cant sue if they are dead, its self defense.

[Rob-00BoxsterS]

Geez, Grizzly. Very, very useful post but kind of depressing.

Think I'll go lay down.......

[TriGem2k]

JAAY maybe you got it all wrong. It was most likey your ex girlfriend who wanted come come and pay you a visit!

[demonz]

What you want in a home defense firearm is:

--high incapacitation power (not to be confused with lethality)


--reliablity/dependability (jams, easy operation under stress)


--low outside penetration threat (is round going to hit Jimmy sleeping in next room?)


--easily handled under stress


Shotgun, it's a little indiscriminate. Unbeatable knockdown power.



Assault rifle, unwieldy in close quarters, over penetration, jams, overkill.



Semi-auto pistol any caliber any make has a possiblilty of a jam (try clearing a stove pipe under extreme stress). Statistically 1 in 1000 rounds will be a dud, then you have to cycle the round. Fumbling/forgetting safety under stress, unless you have a Sigsaur.


IMO clear winner is a revolver, .357 or .38 +P minimum with Glaser safety Slugs or Corbon. Utterly reliable. Dud? no problem pull the trigger again. Dependable, just pull trigger, no safety worries. With the safety slugs you get good stopping power without over penetration. Only downside I see is muzzle flash is more so with stubby and might be a bit slower for subsequent target aquisition after initial shot. If you need more than 6 shots, you didn't have much of a chance to begin with. Either you were highly outnumbered or your markmanship preparedness was bound to fail you.

[kelly1005]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

1) Your best chance to instantly stop someone is not a center mass shot or a headshot (that you won't make).

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

[FrayAdjacent]

I wouldn't go as far as saying 'if you're not going to train, avoid weapons'.

I haven't gone to a DE. Should I avoid Porsches?
Formal training IS an asset... but not a requirement.

I have no formal training with any of my weapons... but I don't think that mattered when I came in 3rd out of 57 shooters in a local IDPA match. I did so through making myself familiar with my weapon, how it shoots, how to reload quickly, and all that.

I'd say it like this - if you're not willing to learn how to use a weapon (through formal training or otherwise), THEN you probably should reconsider having one.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by kelly1005

I'll chime in here although I usually avoid these threads like the plague...

I keep a handgun for home defense, but I also train with it. I've got 100s of hours of training; last year alone I trained 6 days with a couple instructors for the Richmond SWAT team (Richmond is not the sorta place you would drive a Boxster in). Anyway, we do simunition training which is sorta like really good paintball except that they're fired out of modified real handguns, not toys. They run us through all sorts of scenarios (ATM robberies, home invasions, hostage situations, etc), almost all at night/dark using flashlights against live people. High stress stuff.

Anyway, in all those classes, with 10 people running through each scenario, you gotta figure I've seen a couple hundred events and half of them end in shootouts (sometimes the badguys listen when we tell them to do stuff or just run away). I've seen absolutely 0 head shots taken. I've seen people shot in the head, but never on purpose. Even at our training level it's hard to think head shots under crazy stress. Against paper, yea. Against living breathing people trying to do you harm, nope. The instructors do it, but they're real pros.

One of the instructors has done over 5000 home entries serving warrants and/or getting bad guys. He's also shot and killed numerous people. He's one of many that debunk the myth that a shotgun being racked will stop any serious criminals. If they're brave enough to come into your home, they're brave enough to face a homeowner who didn't think to chamber a round until the last minute. These people are not right in the head and often on drugs, they're feeling no pain and have no fear. Intimidation doesn't work, well placed hits do.

Oh, and all the instructors shoot .45s. All the students end up shooting .45s. I don't know if we're some cult or something, but on the line you see nothing but 1911 pattern weapons. I used to be a glock 23 guy, but gave that up after the first few classes. Once you figure out how to run a 1911, you never go back. There's a reason all those old cranky guys use 'em. They work.

If you're not going to train/practice, I would suggest to avoid any sort of weapons. Just get a dog or two, an alarm and hope 911 gets there in time.

If you are suggesting that there are guys who can take two rounds from a 10 guage shotgun and keep coming, hey, I'd like to see those guys.

But, you may be right!

[CJ_Boxster]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I hate to say it, but CJ is dead wrong about a .22 bouncing and around causing damage.

LOL dang, why do i have to be "dead wrong", why cant i just be "wrong" haha

Reason i said the bouncing thing about the rounds is that in the past when asked about my firearm, the gun store helper or whoever has mentioned that bouncing thing. So i figure its probably true but guess its a myth.... Grizzly, would you say thats "Myth Busted"?

I'd likely aim for the head with the first 2 rounds and unload the next 8 rounds into the body, Im pretty sure i could stop any burgler unless they are on PCP, then ill have to wrestle that mofo down... wonder if they make a knife attachment for my utility rail on the 22.?

[Dr. Kill]

Originally Posted by CJ_Boxster

I'd likely aim for the head with the first 2 rounds and unload the next 8 rounds into the body, Im pretty sure i could stop any burgler unless they are on PCP, then ill have to wrestle that mofo down... wonder if they make a knife attachment for my utility rail on the 22.?

that might work, but why count on 10 shots for a kill when a single fist-sized hole from a '45 would likely do a bit better?

I am not great with a pistol, but could probably pull off the 10 shots you mention rapid fire at a target range, but in my house, in the dark, with my heart pumping at 160BPM or whatever while scared out of my mind, I am not sure. Also, what do you do to the second guy after putting 10 rounds in the first?