Any progress on V8 engine swap options?
 

Have any of the v8 swaps improved over the past few years, or do we still have driveaxle problems and partial developed kit problems? I'm shocked no one seems to have completely figured it out yet. I hope I'm wrong though, my 2.5 can't be all that long for this world.

:cheers:

A few guys have done a 4.2L swap but there hasn't really been anything that well documented.

I'm not a fan of the LS swaps. I'd rather not hack the car up to fit the engine in.

I'm fine hacking it up, I just need something durable enough for the track. It sounds like the options out there don't have a solution whiteout a weird driveshaft angle.

I hear...
 

...that Corvettes are available on the open market.:p

I have three audi 2.7T motors sitting in my shop. I wish I had the time to put one of those in a boxster like that guy in England. The Audi 2.7T can make gobs of power for cheap. Wouldn't mind trying a VR6 too.

I think that there just isn't a good enough pay-off for anyone looking to develop an actual kit. Most of the market to replace failed engines in an old Boxster is probably more of a budget buyer. Making it all well takes skill, time, and money.
Round up 30-50 buyers (investors) with $10K each and turn John (BoxsterLs376) loose with it. Check out what he said near the end of this post: http://986forum.com/forums/535558-post510.html I bet it would be 'bolt-in' within 6 months.
I'm muddling through my own Audi 4.2 swap, but like most of the swaps I've followed , it is a start and stop project and isn't going to produce step-by-step instructions.

Want easy? Bolt an ABZ to a 5-speed using an LS throttle body, custom intake, and aftermarket engine management. Porsche Boxster with an Audi V8 – Engine Swap Depot:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1495509955.jpg

:eek::cheers::eek:

If you want 300+HP....
 

....just drop your Box off at Flat 6 and let Jake Raby build you an engine.

Simple.

:cheers:

Exactly.

There simply isn't enough of a demand to supply a turn key "kit" for an LS-based conversion. Additionally, there's a significant amount of modifications to the body, wiring and cooling system that no kit would ever would ever be able to provide a true bolt-in solution.

Bottom line, if you're not comfortable cutting / welding / soldering, then the LS swap is not in your best interests.

The Audi V8 swap, however, could be a different story. This engine has the highest possibility of a bolt-in solution. I'm almost willing to bet it could be done without modifying the firewall.

However, you need to remember the audience in all this. The typical individual looking at performing a V8 swap is anticipating DOUBLE the power output of the original engine (500hp vs. 250hp) While the Audi "could" be a more simple swap procedure, it's simply not going to achieve the same power levels as the Chevrolet design... as least not at the same cost break.

Finally, I enjoy not having a good kit available. It makes my car a little more unique.
:D

Baylet-got vss working for $2.00 .Google ls1 tech solution swap with 3 wire vss .Both Porsche and Toyota have a square wave -this creates a sine wave and it works

I've been researching this swap for over a year now. My goal would be to achieve factory-like integration with no cutting or irreversible modifications done to the Boxster.

I think the minimum requirements to swap an Audi V8 into a non-S (5-speed) Boxster you could get away with would be an engine cradle, and a conversion harness between the Audi engine and the Boxster body harness. Obviously air, exhaust and coolant plumbing as well. You likely wouldn't need to cut up the car anywhere.

Based on the measurements I've seen the belt drive V8s aren't any longer than the M96s when measured from the crank pulley back to the transmission mounting flange. The chain drive V8s (i.e. B6 S4) would be less so (but there are issues with those engines). The issue is with the height of the engine which causes an interference between the engine cover and the throttle body... at least based on the pictures I've seen on the interweb.

There are probably communication issues between the body ECU and the engine ECU that would dictate the use of arduino based signal conversion modules to ensure functions like the PSM and the speedometer work. However, both are Motronic based to begin with at least, which is more that you can say for the LS engines, so there is a likelihood that these are non-issues depending on which year Boxster and year V8 you end up with (and what revision Motronic each has).

When I swapped a 2.7tt into my B6 A4 (2003) the engine and body ECUs were close enough in Motronic versions that all functions worked just like factory. The car was smogged through the OBD port, traction control and stability control worked and controlled engine output accordingly, all speed sensors from the engine controlled the tachometer and vehicle speed sensors fed into the engine ECU properly.. The only thing that didn't integrate properly was cruise control, but I could have wired in an older control stalk to fix that issue. But I sold the car. If the V8 swapped into the Boxster in the same way it would be a piece of cake, but from what I've seen online so far, this isn't the case.

If anyone in Ontario has a hoist and wants to do this to their car, I'll design the parts, get them fabricated, and do the wiring. You supply the V8 and the Boxster (preferably a later model 986).

I can't afford to spend $20,000 to get 300hp out of my M96.

Woah, nice find. Thanks for the intel. Heading down to the lab right now to steal a 1M resistor and 1uF cap.

:D

I've been working on a cradle/subframe lately. I'm not a good welder or engineer, so I have made a rough wooden model that I'm having a shop use for dimensions. To get an Audi V8 to fit with the stock intake it will need to have a little cutting around the engine cover. I'll post pics in a day or two. The throttle body is too high and too far back on both the ABZ and 40 valve engines. With mine there will be a little cutting and a custom fabricated all metal cover. The rest of the fit looks good. Unless I find problems as I progress I plan to keep the PS pump and AC compressor. Lots of room at the front firewall and a little play at the bottom end, oil pan, subframe.

Here's a view of an ABZ (32 valve cable throttle Audi V8) as I was figuring out my subframe cradle:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1496794548.jpg
My positioning is based on mounting the transmission to the engine, then mounting the transmission normally in the car.
The 40 valve, electronic-throttle engines fit about the same.
The Audi motronic 7.1.1 ECUs are pretty easy to reflash (for the 40 valve engines), but so far I have not found a good version (freely available) for the manual transmission on the A8 ECU. The info needed to create it is available through NefMoto and as I get my engine running in the Boxster, I'll figure out exactly what changes need to be made.

Awesome!

Care to share pictures?

What year Boxster? Do you have the wiring diagrams for the V8? ABZ code, right?

The way I look at it is that you need to re-do all the plumbing for the 2.7tt when you swap it into the 986... so you might as well start with a V8! :D

There's apparently a manual transmission V8 file from the euro S8 floating around Nefmoto somewhere. I think that's the one you need.

I'm assuming your Box is DBC?

My project car is a 2000 S. At first, I was going to go with the ABZ, then I bought a complete 2003 A8. I think that for the 2000 and later cars the 40 valve engine is the better match, so that's probably what I'll go with. I have seen the Euro S8 file and I really need to see if one of my ECUs will take it without bricking. From what I have read though the tune will be off pretty bad due to differences in intake and valves etc.
Here's the mess in my garage at the moment:
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02/mess1496798192.jpg

My 2000 S is still intact and driveable (with a 2.5L engine that seems to have a blocked coolant passage). I have the cut-away back end of my parts car for a mock-up.

There are a lot of versions of wiring diagrams scattered across the web. I collected everything I'd need for the ABZ, and had mapped out much of the harness. Now with the change of plan, I have a Bentley for the C5 (AWN & ART engine code) - not quite a match for my late D2 AUX, but close.

would it be easier to just fabricate a smaller sump (or a dry sump) and mount the engine a little lower in the bay and avoid the cutting, etc.?

I have never fabricated a sump. I have cut up cars.
For me and for a car that will not be going back to an M96, cutting is easy. Weld on a little reinforcement or bolt on rear strut bar if I cut into structure.

Can the Audi V8 be made to fit without cutting? I think so. Look at what Kent (Kcpaz) did with the custom intake manifold and front mounted throttle body. Beautiful engineering.
If you drop it much lower, I think the transmission will have to be mounted lower as well. The height of my engine placement is based on standard mounting of the 5-speed transmission. What I like about the Audi 4.2L and 2.7 tt swaps is that they bolt directly to the unmodified transmission.

Here's a pic of what I was hoping for before I bolted the transmission on. It almost fit other than the IAC valve.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1496810286.jpg

I take it the 6speed doesn't easily mount to any Audi V8 engine or are we only working with 5spd boxes because that's what we've got to play with?

I believe the 987.2 and later 6 speeds bolt up with no problem and have a spot for the starter much like the 5 speed. They are supposedly stronger and lighter than the earlier 6 speeds. Of course those transmissions are $2500+ right now and demand is high for them. I could probably sell 10 of them if I had them. All the WRL guys want them.

Another motor I haven't heard much mention but is actually a better motor than the 2.7 and possibly 4.2 is the VW VR6. The VR6 is a beast once you throw a turbo on them. The rumor i heard was that the VR6 was designed to be a diesel motor originally but then was switched over to run gas. Because of it's diesel dna, the block, crank and rods are super strong and can handle lots of boost. I'm thinking it's height might be a problem in a boxster as it's almost an inline six. That could also be a good thing as there would be more room on the sides for turbo plumbing. A turbo'd VR6 is also one of the best sounding motors ever. The VR6 was the base motor for the cayenne.

When guys swap the VR6 into the B5 chassis they need to modify the hood latch due to interference with the engine. In the Boxster, this point would be the engine cover, much in the same area where the forward part of the V8 intake manifold is interfering.

I am running the Cayman engine cover instead of the stock 986 cover on my '02 Boxster. Saves me about 4lbs since it is all aluminum. It is also a little taller to accomodate the 987 airbox. Not sure where you need the room, but it might help a liitle if you are looking for just liittle bit more room on top.

Pierre

The Cayman engine cover should work with the 4.2L V8 if you mount the engine as low as possible and use a shorter throttle body arrangement. I plan to use material from the aluminum trunk from my A8 and the help of an airframe mechanic friend to fabricate a cover.
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1496956148.jpg

Does the Cayman engine cover interfere with the Bose subwoofer box and the top in the Boxster?

Things are pretty tight between the engine cover and the sub box already with the top down so I would imagine it's even worse, it not impossible with the Cayman cover.

Top fits with the Cayman engine cover, but i use a towel instead of the heavy engine cover carpet between the two. The top of the Cayman cover is different. Not sure if the stock carpet fits on top of the engine cover. If i have time this weekend, I will check to see if it fits.

Pierre

78F350 how is your progress? Im just starting mine, Im planning on cutting the rear of the engine bay so it is flat top as I dont intend having a soft top there to fold into the valley,
Cheers Russ...

Hi Russ (and any others that are interested), I have my soft top removed too and am also cutting into the rear of the engine bay. The car has a hardtop and a sun-shade made from a cut-up top that had a bad window.
I didn't work on it all summer, but started in again in September. Right now it's in the garage with engine, transmission, and rear suspension removed. I'm hoping to have the 4.2 and suspension back in tomorrow so I can roll it out of the way and change the clutch on a Honda.
What's done? ...engine maintenance, basic sub-frame, flywheel, clutch, piecing together the 6-speed to 5-speed swap (it's an S model), mapped out the harness from the 4.2 (2003 A8 AUX) engine and most of the Boxster connections. Yesterday I flashed an ECU with a .bin that has already been modified and tuned for the A6 and A8 with manual transmission.
I don't want to do a build thread, because it will make me feel time-pressured to get stuff done, and this swap is one of my lowest priorities right now. I do plan on posting some of the details much later, when I have a running car.
Here's my 5 year old grandson 'installing the clutch':
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4454/...75995fc6_c.jpg

78F350 the panel I got from you is in place but not welded hahahttp://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1508387883.jpg

Do you have any pictures of your creation? I've been thinking of doing one for a long time.

I don't have any pictures, but I'll post some later. It is still very rough. The front is cut just outside the seams and generally follows the seams back. It is removed from the frame except for the front bar and an arch near the roll bar. It was set it up with fiberglass poles (from a tent) arching from the windshield to back under the clamshell and bungee cords securing it to the top of the struts. After testing it, I think it will be better with a support that clamps on over the roll bar. This one isn't going to be sexy, just a little ragged shade that I can carry in the trunk or frunk.

I have just got my Audi V8 swap up and running in a 2003 boxster S.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SUHf4KtmP5Y

Using a 2001 A8 engine. DBW, Can Bus all working on Audi ECU. Currently has a Cayman 5 speed mated to it.

Transmission in standard location, had to cut the engine bay and fab a new cover.

This is a race car, so not concerned about packaging as much as practicality. Air intake has been moved to the trunk for ease of install.

Running electric power steering and no AC. Just the alternator driven from the engine.

Did you modify the front firewall at all? My cam covers were pressed against the firewall until I hammered and cut a little more space.
It that a custom shifter cable? It's a tight fit over the top with stock.

The huge pulley on the PS comes very close to the parking brake cable. I haven't decided how I want to go yet. I am still considering keeping the AC, but will probably end up with an Ice-chest type cooler.

What do you have for a engine mount/subframe? I paid way too much to have a local fabricator make mine and after bringing it back 3 times gave up on him. I can make it work, but I'm not happy with it.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4572/...403c564a_c.jpg
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4579/...0e430064_c.jpg

What axles, any modification? I'm not familiar enough with the Cayman 5-speed to know if it takes the Boxster S axle.
I've got an '01 5-speed going into an S and the 5-speed axles will work, but just barely fit for the nut:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4526/...46133486_c.jpg

No problem with the cam covers. Have maybe half an inch of clearance.

Cayman S shift cables re-routed to the rhs of the engine. A six speed will need the two cables split and run either side of the engine I think.

On mobile, so can't post photos. Will get some and post later.
I built a custom cradle using the stock front mounting location and a custom cross piece much like yours. But mine doesn't sit as low. I used the Audi engine mount aluminum pieces with Jeep rubber blocks to provide a little isolation.

Have another car on the lift right now, but I'll post photos once it goes back on.

I used 2006 Cayman S axles, uprights etc. Basically all the running gear is from a Cayman S. The different abs sensors were plug and play with my abs unit.

Good stuff, thanks. :cheers:

Looking forward to seeing more of it and seeing more of these swaps get completed.

Glad to see some discussion and progress on this! I'm going to be getting starting on my project in a few weeks. I've got a 2003 Boxster S. I'm also a mechanical engineer and I've also swapped/wired up Audi engines before (2.7tt swap into a B6 chassis A4). I have a lot of shops in the area that I deal with through work who can support fabrication or machining for my project. I have lots of Solidworks experience and a little bit of FEA.

I've got a 4.2L sourced locally, along with wiring harness and ECU from a 2003 Audi A6. This particular engine is an 'AWN' code engine. As well, I have a 5-speed from a B5 chassis FWD Audi A4, which is the same transmission used in the non-S Boxster. So I'm still sourcing the 5-speed conversion components (through Woody actually :)). I knew that the 6-speed from the Cayman was compatible with the 986, but as mentioned, it's also around $3,000 USD. So the 5-speed will have to do for now, until I come across that winning lottery ticket. Or until someone offers me $3,000 for my 986S transmission.

One of the significant requirements of this swap is that it passes an OBDII smog inspection. This is a requirement in the area where I live in order to be able to renew your vehicle registration.

I'm not really worried about mechanical issues because I can sort those out. What I am worried about is more related to the electrical side of things...

My concerns are:
- Tachometer compatibility (some Audi ECUs communicate tach via CAN and other through a signal wire)
- A/C idle up (usually through CAN)
- Rad fan switching (some Audis have relay modules (early 2.7tt) and some use a PWM signal from the ECU (3.0L V6)
- Engine compartment fan switching (not a big deal, but anyway)

There are a number of swap online which show a functioning tachometer, which leads me to believe this isn't really that big of an issue.

Does anyone have any insight on the wiring for these swaps? I've started laying out wire functions and colours for the Boxster in a spreadsheet but haven't done so for the engine side of things yet.

B6T, If you go with a five speed, go with a 987 five speed. It's suppose to be stronger internally and uses the bigger CV bolts too. Sorry I can't answer the other questions
Specboxco, I recommend moving your ECU off the bottom of the trunk. I've seen the heat from the exhaust cook ecu's placed there

Hey Woody,
If I go with a 987 5-speed then I have to look for a "Porsche" transmission and not a "VW" transmission... and the cost increases exponentially.

The FWD B5 A4/Passat 5-speed (016?) is really a temporary solution until I get the engine up and running. Once I sell the M96/G96 from my car I should have the funds available to buy the proper 987S 6-speed.

I think that the harness coming from my A8 AUX engine is bundled differently than the A6 harness.
The engine harness in this thread by '4Loops' swapping an ART into an A4 may be closer to your engine:
Detailed V8 Swap: B5 A4 4.2L - Page 5

I traced these connectors and came up with a spreadsheet (still rough and unverified). If you want a copy of it in .xls PM me your email. My intent is to share it (post it publicly for download) after I clean it up and verify. -I'm not likely to do any work on this in December.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4567/...1cd399fe_c.jpg

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1512155037.jpg

Hey all,
I'm just getting started on a 2001S build with a 4.2L Audi. We are planning on using the 6 speed 986 trans and cut it to clear the starter of the Audi motor. Anyone done this?

What clutch did you use for your build?

I'm currently building with a 986 5-speed and a flywheel/clutch arrangement for an Audi A6 2.7T (C5 platform). I may pull my 6-speed off the Boxster engine in a week or two and get a look at if there are any issues using the 6 speed transmission with that clutch and flywheel. I'll post if I do.
What engine are you using, 32 valve or 40 valve?

I ran into an unexpected problem with mine, where after I bolted the transmission on the engine wouldn't turn. My clutch pressure plate was in contact with the transmission housing. I'm currently waiting for a "01E103551H" spacer to correct it. Most swaps have not needed it and I'm still not sure why mine did. I'm using a late 2003 AUX engine and I don't see other swaps with that particular one.

An Audizine thread about the spacer: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/766013-Audi-Engine-To-Transmission-Spacers-Function-When-Are-They-Needed

Here's some clutch and flywheel discussion that should be helpful (also mentions spacers): http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/508044-V8-Models-What-Flywheel-And-Clutch-Combo-Are-You-Running