78F350, Thank you for sharing! that was an interesting post, it seems that the more I read the more I found out that there is always something new to be learned.

78F350, we have a 40 valve motor. I have the benefit of a full machine shop plus I have been fabricating for over 40 years and mostly build titanium bicycle frames for a living. Making spacers and the engine cradle are easy work. The plan is to make a cradle that will accept 2.7L V6 or 4.2L V8 with just a different front motor mount for the block. We have both motors and 986 5 speed and 6 speed trans in the shop. Seems like most folks are going with a 987 6 speed trans so the starter plugs in the correct location...

What did you do with the starter location for the 986 5 speed?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cedar-Ridge-Fabrication-adjustable-length-exhaust-hangers-NSX-Honda-Acura-Subaru/332161193201?hash=item4d565994f1:g:o3IAAOSwuxFY0Un H&vxp=mtrhttp://

Here is a part I make for the early Acura NSX that may be helpful with these motor swaps, lots of folks buy these for many applications so figured I'd post it up here.

The 5 speed bolts right up with the Audi engine. No need to modify for the starter. The clutch slave from the 5 speed looks a little different, but both mount and seem to work identically. The shift cables and linkage need to be swapped with the 5 speed. The axle stub does not swap from the 6 speed to the 5 speed, so I'm using the whole 5 speed axle. It's just a bit short on the hub.

I'm quite dissatisfied with my current cradle and I'm not a good welder. If you come up with one that you are willing to sell and ship, I'm probably going to want it.
I gave a local fabricator measurements, the scrapped back 1/2 of a car, and this picture from Precision Chassis Works (for concept).
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1512664141.jpg
After 2 months of "It will done next week" and about $1,000 I had a heavy piece of scrap metal that was off by INCHES. Finally got it to fit, but not well. I'd love to see what you come up with.

That layout is what I'm thinking for the cradle except with the Audi motor mounts so they can be a junk yard find, maybe add a torque link if it proves necessary, which I'm guessing it won't be needed for an NA build. For FI, seems like the drive line will be the weak link and my goal is a nice 300'/Lb torque from a motor we can track for a long time as long as no one money shifts it.

is a cradle really needed? I am going with factory mounts as its only 100hp increase, that way you only need to fabricate an adapter to the front mount, I am going to modify the side mounts to allow a bit more exhaust clearance too, on the engine side I am removing the AC and PS pumps so mount bolts on there and then on the other side I am going to use the original Audi brace arm and also bolt through to the block in at least one place. I am using a GM astra electric power steering pump up front.

Needed? Probably not. I am following the build on FB too and I think that is a good, innovative approach. I like it. Before seeing that I was already convinced that the cradle that KCPAZ came up with was the way I wanted to go. I respect his skills and see the design as 'track proven'.

Nice solution if you don’t mind loosing the AC. What I want to make is a part that you can maintain all the creature comforts plus use the stock Audi mounts for the PS and AC since it looks like they will hose up to the Porsche systems with only the addition of a reservoir for the PS pump. I agree there is no need for more engine mount that the stock Boxster ones, really come down to packaging for me and it seems just as easy to make one cradle than 2 separate mounts once the design is finished. The other goal is a way to use either V6 or V8 on the same cradle with just a motor mount swap, or hole location change.

I think an advantage that the cradle has versus a singular front mount off the front of the engine is that the cradle can act as a stiffening member to better tie the bottom of the car together which may be helpful for the racers.

The guy in the FB build thread fabricated a small mount bracket that mimics the original flat-6 front engine mount, ie forward and lower from the crank pulley, which is also what I think rusty69911 is talking about too. That was the approach I was going to take because it seems to be the most simple and will offer lots of space on the side of the engine for future expansion.

I will have an engine to start taking measurements from in a month or so.

This looks like a very promising thread... lots of talent and skills. Can't wait to see how it progresses!

What happens when one of these swaps hits the smog testing site? What will the ECU report to the OBD2 port connected testers?

It will report the VIN from the originating car. Unless you re-code it via a hex editor.

Now that I think of it, I'm not sure if it reports the engine type.

I've been living away from smog for most of my life and really don't know the details of what is required. If the engine swap itself is legal, it should be able to pass a smog test if done correctly.

I have learned the basics of flashing the ECUs used for these swaps and anyone else with very basic technical skills can learn it as well. It is not difficult to enter the correct VIN or load a modified file to the ECU. Knowing exactly what changes to make for tuning,.. or deleting the SAI is still beyond me, but the information is available for learning when my curiosity ventures there.

With some adjustments, the ECU should function properly and OBD port report normally. Need to be sure? Have a reputable pro do it.

For my car it doesn't matter. In Oklahoma there is not even a state requirement for a basic safety check :eek:

Our current palm is to run 2 ECU, one for the car that shares outputs for the engine ECU that only controls the motor. The idea is to send just enough info to the car ECU that it thinks everything is good enough to run with out interference. For Oregon this will work for all cars prior to 2005 since there is not a need for ECU/VIN inspection, for later cars I am not sure how this will work if DEQ can 'see' both ECU plugged in.

I just ordered a 987 6 speed transmission(with cables and axles) so I can get this project going, already have the 4.2L 40 valve motor. I'm going back and forth on the cradle design, using the front Boxster mount makes packaging easy and will simplify the front radiator line routing. Thinking this route will be a horse shoe shape that will pick up the motor in 2 locations on each side, at the transmission bolt up and the factory Audi motor mount location. This way all the bending moment is compensated for and the load is stabilized into a plane that can bolt up to the stock front Boxster mount. Front could be a flat plate to make it compact and help with packaging for accessories/belt run. Hopefully I can have pics of concept next week...depending on how the holiday messes with things.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1515697890.jpg
A little progress, the engine cradle in the next couple of weeks!

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517533935.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517533966.jpg
Some of the parts for the motor cradle...hopefully get the rest tomorrow and can have it welded up this weekend!

Can you make me one too please?

Once I get one done and I'm sure it works the plan is to offer these for sale. Also make one for 2.7L V6 too for those who want to do the turbo thing! I should have this together this weekend and if I got it right.

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877561.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877588.jpg
Cradle welded...next step to see if the motor fits in the car.:)

http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877668.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877689.jpg
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877710.jpg
Complete cradle is 8.5LB, I might have made it too light but it's surprisingly stout feeling, real question is fatigue over the long haul. An extra couple of pounds will most likely make sense.

Looks good! I like the width at the base (open for access), use of the front engine mount, and general simplicity.
Do the two aft supports just tie in to the bell housing bolts?
I am curious if there will be any benefit adding a torque dampner to roll.

[QUOTE=titaniumdave;561944]
http://986forum.com/forums/uploads02...1517877710.jpg

That’s a real man’s oil filter!:)

[QUOTE=Boxstard;561948] Even says MANN right on it!

The cradle picks up to point on the transmission bell housing. I'm going to pick up one more point on the front of the motor, where the 3rd motor mount used to be. There is a threaded hole on the lower corner of the cradle directly below that mount so it will be a simple strap with a couple of bends and 2 holes. That's the last bit before I try and stuff in in the engine hole in the car...

[QUOTE=titaniumdave;561966] I noticed after my posting, pun not intended:cheers:

Are you going to install engine mounts? The undampened vibrations may not help the fatigue issue.

Also...

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...akemymoney.jpg

I don't think there is an upside to more engine mounts. The concept is the have the motor/transmission assembly move as a rigid unit, the cradle is an extension of that. I added the front strut to the motor mount bracket and I'm pleased with how it's all working. I will make another for the driver's side once I get the belt run figured out and it will be good enough for testing/racing.

Test fit went okay. Cradle will work for my race car project, but there will need to be parts of the engine bay cut to clear the heads. I'm going to do some surgery, drop the motor 50mm more and try again to stuff it in. I don't know if it's possible to get the 40V AQH motor to fit with out beating on the engine bay. For those who are building cars they DO NOT care about cutting up the engine bay, I would say this is a winner.

Pics? no progress from my project either...

I will post some pics in the next week or so, I have the cradle mostly stuck back together. In the end I have dropped the motor crank centerline a total of 65mm at the front of the motor. This make the 4.2L oil pan sit at the same level as the 3.2L flat 6. I want to put everything back in and see how much the heads interfere with the body and go from there with pics so folks can see how this option will work in the real world(street car). The cradle clears the rear steel beam that goes between the rear suspension mounts too, uses the OEM rear 987 transmission mounts and it looks like I can run the exhaust from the Audi header down and follow the stock Boxster routing toward the rear of the car.

methinks you need to fab up a cool dry sump system so that you can get the engine lower.

If the fitment is similar to what I have, the tops of the timing belt covers contact the front firewall. Adjustment of the engine bay was needed, but minimal. With mine, I had no reservations about making some cuts and hitting it with a hammer. Moving lower would still be good for mine though for better reach of the shifting cable. From the start I have planned to fabricate a bolt-on top cover for the engine.
I'm really looking forward to the finished product becoming available. :cheers:

The cradle looks like it will sit very low. Mine is a similar concept, but sits much higher up, so the bottom of the cradle is level with the bottom of the sump. I am still a little worried about clearance (albeit a track car rather than a street car) and am fabricating a skid plate for it.

For your belt run, what accessories are you planning on using? I ended up using a tensioner from a touareg and cutting down the idler from the fan drive to make mine work with just an alternator.

Cradle tubes are just below the oil pan so it will be easy to mount a bash plate if need be...I want to do a full tray and diffusor for aero purposes so there will be some protection for the bottom of the motor.

For belt run I'm thinking I want to keep the PS pump but I admit I'm not sure how to get the belt to run clean if I keep the PS pump in OEM location. Your solution may be the best, alternator only and do an electric PS pump.

Electric PS pump from 00-05 MR2 has a reservoir built is, can mount in the frunk close to the battery. PS pump in the belt run makes no sense, so I will follow the lead and only run the alternator. What model/year Touareg did the tensioner come from?

consider manual steering - i've converted my rack to manual and w 245 tires on the front no issues. otherwise, i've an electric PS rig that i'd sell.

I used an electric PS pump from a mid 2000s Volvo s40. Cost me $20 from a junk yard and works great. Way easier to find than an MR2 pump. Hardest part was making the fittings for the rack. Had to silver solder AN fittings to the existing brass connectors.

The tensioner was from a 2004 v8 Touareg. Same engine, just slightly different layout with a shorter tensioner for better clearance. You may not need it, as I was trying to get away from needing the upper idler, but it put the tensioner on the wrong side of the belt that way and the clearance was really tight.

Thanks for the Volvo tip! Lines are easy, I build bicycle frame for a living so been soldering bits together for over 40 years;) I will look for that tensioner...

Plan is to run endurance races with a number of drivers, figure 2 hour stints. Anything I can do to make it easier to drive will make us faster and more consistent, plus we will be running 245's all around.

PM with what you have for PS rig.

I didn't realize that the factory flat 6 engine mount was retained when I wrote that post originally. So I agree with your idea to keep everything rigid.

If (when) you make these, what sort of price will you be looking at?