Linking headlights to interior light

[geraintthomas]

No need - the point of the courtesy lights is that, when you open the door in the night, they turn on also. So it kind of needs to be the courtesy lights.

[RichRobby]

I also see that you can convert from positive to negative here

Does this help - I know I am clueless here, just trying to throw in ideas

http://www.the12volt.com/relays/page1.asp

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

[geraintthomas]

That actually looks really promising.

ParticleWave, Meir, what do you think? Using a relay in the configuration posted in the link above?

Again, just trying to get the parking lights turn on when the courtesy lights do. No sensors or timers that's all I'm after.

[geraintthomas]

Right, thanks to RichRobby for that link, I think I may have done it?

I've used 'EveryCircuit' to simulate the circuit, and it works on there. A switched negative input as a trigger activated a 12v output. In this case, when the ground of the courtesy lights has a current, the 12v feed to the side lights will work.

In the diagram, the courtesy lights is just a switch on a ground feed into pin 30 of the relay. The switch basically mimics the courtesy lights being switched on, and the ground feed having a current.

Also, 87b was meant to say 87a sorry - typo.

Off:


On:


So it works in EveryCircuit, and that's going by the instructions on the link that RichRobby posted. Seems a simlply way to convert a negative switched input to a 12v switched output.

Here's my live demo of it:
http://everycircuit.com/circuit/5364238130610176

Have a go. The bulb at the top is the parking lights. The bulb at the bottom is the courtesy light. The bottom switch is the courtesy light switch and the top switch is the parking light switch. If you switch on the top switch in the demo, you'll see the parking lights turn on, but if you turn on the courtesy light, they both turn on.

So I suppose the only thing I ask now is, why wouldn't this work?

It's basically this:

[Meir]

Originally Posted by geraintthomas

Anyway - It's a good project that you're doing with the photometric sensor and all, and I'd be keen to see it work, but for now and for the purpose of the original question and the reason for the thread - is there any way to just simply wire up the parking lights to the courtesy lights?

Even with the use of a 5 pin relay, for example? That's literally all I'd want at the moment - I didn't expect this to get carried away into photometric sensors that leave lights on for 10 seconds after the car is turned off etc etc. Like I said, I massively appreciate it and it sounds amazing (and be sure to show us when you're done), but I'm just interested in turning the parking lights on when the courtesy lights come on.

So is there a way to do this with a simple bit of wiring and relays? This is me talking off the top of my head and probably absolute rubbish, but could the courtesy light's ground wire be wired into a relay, that when given a current, tells the relay to send power to one of its pins, which is the 12v feed for the sidelights? That may not make sense, but it's something like that which I'm thinking of.

Is that not possible?

the short answer to your question is yes.

Originally Posted by geraintthomas

That actually looks really promising.

ParticleWave, Meir, what do you think? Using a relay in the configuration posted in the link above?

Again, just trying to get the parking lights turn on when the courtesy lights do. No sensors or timers that's all I'm after.

First I need to correct PW. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, the courtesy light trigger is positive.
With that said, it doesn’t really matter.
Once you use a relay (and you must in this case) the polarity of the trigger is irrelevant.
You just need to connect the other side of the solenoid to the opposite polarity.
The solenoids is like a bulb, it will work once it gets positive and ground in the two poles, and it doesn’t matter which pole gets which polarity. (I hope I’m not confusing too much)
If you guys a really interested to understand how a relay works, let me know and I’ll make a short video.
Back to the car.
In our case, we will need to use two relays due to the fact that the lights system is divided to left and right. You have two wires coming out of the switch, and two fuses on the fuse box. So each line needs a relay.
I was working a bit on my car this weekend, completing the installation of an “in dash” in garage opener, and started working on the electrical system of my home made PSE.
So I looked around a little bit, and it looks like the easy way to accomplish this mode, will be doing it behind the light switch. It is really simple project.
I promise to show in detailed how it’s done. I just need to find the time to do it.

[geraintthomas]

Originally Posted by Meir

the short answer to your question is yes.




First I need to correct PW. As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, the courtesy light trigger is positive.
With that said, it doesn’t really matter.
Once you use a relay (and you must in this case) the polarity of the trigger is irrelevant.
You just need to connect the other side of the solenoid to the opposite polarity.
The solenoids is like a bulb, it will work once it gets positive and ground in the two poles, and it doesn’t matter which pole gets which polarity. (I hope I’m not confusing too much)
If you guys a really interested to understand how a relay works, let me know and I’ll make a short video.
Back to the car.
In our case, we will need to use two relays due to the fact that the lights system is divided to left and right. You have two wires coming out of the switch, and two fuses on the fuse box. So each line needs a relay.
I was working a bit on my car this weekend, completing the installation of an “in dash” in garage opener, and started working on the electrical system of my home made PSE.
So I looked around a little bit, and it looks like the easy way to accomplish this mode, will be doing it behind the light switch. It is really simple project.
I promise to show in detailed how it’s done. I just need to find the time to do it.

You're a star.

With the courtesy lights and the parking lights both being 12v, I thought it didn't even need a relay.

I've got footwell lights that come on when the courtesy lights come on, and dimmer ones that come on when the parking lights are on (for ambient night driving). I would have thought that, if both parking and courtesy lights are triggered by positive, then you'd simply splice the two with a diode, so one can turn the other on, but not the other way around.

But, I know very little about electronics and there's probably a very simple explanation to why that doesn't work when you get it working, do tell!

I've also got bypass pipes, and would have loved electronic valves. The electrics aren't worrying me, it's what valves to use. They'd need to be small to fit in the space. What did you use?

[particlewave]

The courtesy lights are switched ground with a constant 12V+ provided by the "consumer switched off" circuit. Take a look at the wiring diagram and then confirm with a multimeter. It is right there in black and white. Any brown wire, solid or striped, is ground.

Pull out one of the door lights and test it. You will see.

You can do it with relays, but not with diodes.



Here is another viewpoint, showing the inside light (dome light) switching function (inside the light fixture). If it had a switched positive, it would not work correctly. When you switch to pin 3, the light stays on always because it already has a constant 12V+ and you are switching it to ground. When you switch to pin 1, it is getting switched ground from the immobilizer.

The positive is constant and supplied by the "consumer switched off" circuit, which stays active with ignition off to provide power to the courtesy lights, mirror and seat adjust, etc.
Of course, I suggest that you go and put a multimeter on the door light and see for yourself. It takes all of a minute.

[geraintthomas]

Oh.

Well, seeing as the courtesy lights are ground actuated and the parking lights are 12v actuated, wouldn't my original diagram work?


Courtesy parking lights (Ground and 12v actuated)

Live:
EveryCircuit - Porsche Light Diagram

Courtesy lights off:


Courtesy lights on:


Simplistic:


I know very little about electronics and there's probably a very simple explanation to why that doesn't work I just don't want to over complicate something that could be quite simple.

Sorry, just don't want to overlook the most simplest options by accident.

[Meir]

i think you are mising the point geraintthomas.
The curtesy light wire is a very light gauge wire if you connected it directly to the lights, it will not withstand the loade, and you will probebly blow the fuse.
relays are being use in many cases.
in our case we need to use it for the following:
"A relay is an electromechanical or electronic device through which a heavy load can be switched ON & OFF with a nominal input of current & voltage".
so in other words, we take the thin wire and use a relay, to power the lights with a thicker one. the lights calls for 25 amp fuse per side.

this is how it shhuld be connected:
(colors of wires are meeningless)

[Meir]

Originally Posted by particlewave

The courtesy lights are switched ground with a constant 12V+ provided by the "consumer switched off" circuit. Take a look at the wiring diagram and then confirm with a multimeter. It is right there in black and white. Any brown wire, solid or striped, is ground.

Pull out one of the door lights and test it. You will see.

You can do it with relays, but not with diodes.



Here is another viewpoint, showing the inside light (dome light) switching function (inside the light fixture). If it had a switched positive, it would not work correctly. When you switch to pin 3, the light stays on always because it already has a constant 12V+ and you are switching it to ground. When you switch to pin 1, it is getting switched ground from the immobilizer.

The positive is constant and supplied by the "consumer switched off" circuit, which stays active with ignition off to provide power to the courtesy lights, mirror and seat adjust, etc.
Of course, I suggest that you go and put a multimeter on the door light and see for yourself. It takes all of a minute.

since you are one of my favorit guys on this forum, and i also have a lot of respect for your knowlage, im going to go home and drag my sorry ass to the garage and test it for the third time
ill hit you back with an opology if needed.

[geraintthomas]

Ah. Didn't get that at all from previous posts, must have missed it. Even then I thought using a relay like I mentioned with thicker wire could have done it, but fair doo's, I'll leave it to the pros

[particlewave]

Meir: yeah, I'll check as well before I stick my foot further into my mouth.
It's been a while since I worked on that circuit, but that's how I remember it and that what I see in the diagram.

Edit: confirmed. Using the cig lighter as a constant source of 12V+ and ground, the courtesy lights definitely have a constant 12V+ and the ground is switched.

[Meir]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Meir: yeah, I'll check as well before I stick my foot further into my mouth.
It's been a while since I worked on that circuit, but that's how I remember it and that what I see in the diagram.

Edit: confirmed. Using the cig lighter as a constant source of 12V+ and ground, the courtesy lights definitely have a constant 12V+ and the ground is switched.

That is strange.
I did the same test and got opposite results
Here is a video I made.
Sorry it's not very clear, but it was hard doing it with one hand holding the phone.
https://youtu.be/jB0Z10e2wzU
Just to give the full picture, this is 02 996, and I also repeated the same test with the test light connected directly to the battery.

[particlewave]

We are talking about and testing 2 different circuits.

In your video, your are testing the "consumer switched off" wire/circuit (red with black stripe).

On 1997-2000 986, the ground is switched for the courtesy lights (door and dome). On 2001-2004, lights were added (footwell, door handle). So for later models, the dome light and door lock light still have switched ground, but the footwell and door "orientation" light (whichever that is) has constant ground and positive is the "consumer switched off" red wire with black stripe. The consumer switched off circuit is deactivated after some time after ignition is shut off and door closed if car is not locked, or immediately if car is locked, so it has a switched 12v+ controlled by that circuit.

So, you can tap into the "consumer switched off" circuit for a switched 12V+, but it will shut off as soon as you lock the car. I don't know how long it stays on if you don't lock it.

If you want the circuit that slowly dims out, that's the dome light/door light circuit and is the switched ground (brown with yellow stripe).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Peyh1sV0Hbo

[Meir]

Originally Posted by particlewave

We are talking about and testing 2 different circuits.

In your video, your are testing the "consumer switched off" wire/circuit (red with black stripe).

On 1997-2000 986, the ground is switched for the courtesy lights (door and dome). On 2001-2004, lights were added (footwell, door handle). So for later models, the dome light and door lock light still have switched ground, but the footwell and door "orientation" light (whichever that is) has constant ground and positive is the "consumer switched off" red wire with black stripe. The consumer switched off circuit is deactivated after some time after ignition is shut off and door closed if car is not locked, or immediately if car is locked, so it has a switched 12v+ controlled by that circuit.

So, you can tap into the "consumer switched off" circuit for a switched 12V+, but it will shut off as soon as you lock the car. I don't know how long it stays on if you don't lock it.

If you want the circuit that slowly dims out, that's the dome light/door light circuit and is the switched ground (brown with yellow stripe).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Peyh1sV0Hbo

Mystery solved.
The light I was testing will shut off as I lock the car. Hence the timer I would like to use.
Anyway, and like I said earlier, it doesn't really matter if the trigger from the courtesy light is positive or negative, you just connect the opposite on the other leg of the solenoid.
Thanks for taking the time to do the video

[particlewave]

Yeah, thanks to you, too.
I'm sure we confused some people, haha

Ger: I think your best bet is to follow Meir's lead. You can buy the timer circuit pre-made and once he posts wiring instructions, it will be simple. My only question is what would happen if you don't lock the car; how long does the "consumer switched off" circuit stay active if the car isn't locked? I've read 10 minutes, 2 hours, 10 hours and indefinitely. I've never checked.

[Meir]

Originally Posted by particlewave

Yeah, thanks to you, too.
I'm sure we confused some people, haha

Ger: I think your best bet is to follow Meir's lead. You can buy the timer circuit pre-made and once he posts wiring instructions, it will be simple. My only question is what would happen if you don't lock the car; how long does the "consumer switched off" circuit stay active if the car isn't locked? I've read 10 minutes, 2 hours, 10 hours and indefinitely. I've never checked.

Good point. I'll check it tomorrow.

[Meir]

Originally Posted by geraintthomas

I've also got bypass pipes, and would have loved electronic valves. The electrics aren't worrying me, it's what valves to use. They'd need to be small to fit in the space. What did you use?

im using vaves taken from a BMW 335i, that are 2inch in diameter.
not sure what bypass you have, but in my opinion that guy did it right.
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/50649-homemade-pse-version-1-0-done-behold-evan-sport-exhaust-pics-vid-writeup-%3D.html

if my experiment works well, mayby i will build another set with the capristo valves.
ExhaustSystems » Exhaust Valves » Exhaust parts » Car Models » Capristo Automotive

[geraintthomas]

Originally Posted by Meir

im using vaves taken from a BMW 335i, that are 2inch in diameter.
not sure what bypass you have, but in my opinion that guy did it right.
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/50649-homemade-pse-version-1-0-done-behold-evan-sport-exhaust-pics-vid-writeup-%3D.html

if my experiment works well, mayby i will build another set with the capristo valves.
ExhaustSystems » Exhaust Valves » Exhaust parts » Car Models » Capristo Automotive

I've had this done to mine:



A pipe that connects just after the CAT's, and goes straight to the tail pipes. Same on each side. The sound is incredible and it was very cheap to do ($150 in dollars, all in).

And was wondering if there were small electronic valves that I could put on the pipes where they attach the pipe after the CAT's. Trouble is I can't find any that are small enough as mine are 1" pipes, and the ones I can find are vacuum actuated and not electronic. I'd happily fit a vacuum solenoid with a switch on the dashboard, but where on earth do you get a vacuum supply from to go into the solenoid? If there's a good way of supplying a vacuum feed to a solenoid, then yeah, I'd do it

[Boxtaboy]

Originally Posted by particlewave

....On 2001-2004, lights were added (footwell, door handle).

Wait...footwell lighting was provided starting from 2001?....how come I don't have any??!!