Where do I go from here (IMS)

[Roger1965]

Well I just got my car back from the shop, did some major work, got through emmisions, it passed and it's running great.

But the shop, which is LN certified for the IMS retrofit, told me my engine is not a candidate due to cam deviations, one side is -4.8 and the other side is -7.6. No Ferrous metal in filter.

So what is my next move? Do I keep this car? Do I throw money at an engine that might be on the way out or do I just drive it, not worry about it and just do regular maintenance. Maybe buy a Dura metric and keep an eye on the cams and bail out at some point? Then I would be out the money I've already spent which is substantial.

I really love the car and it is in a somewhat rare color combination that I have not been able to find in another car over the last year.

Just musing here all opinions are welcome.

[Heiko]

If the cam deviations are out past +/- 6 degrees you need to get the cam chain pads replaced that run between the cams. Its a bit of job to get these done with the engine in the car but much easier with the engine out. If you have no damage so far and it hasn't kicked a code (it probably will soon) but I would get it done before the chain goes through the last remaining bits of nylon and chews up the cam adjuster assembly (that could get costly)
H

[johnsjmc]

I was about to say the same thing You have a 5 chain engine with a moveable set of pads between each pair of cams in the head The cam chain pads have been redesigned to last longer and are quite cheap like $15 per head . They require the cam covers be removed along with the cams and then retimed after installing the new pads. I,ve read you can do it with the engine in place but it would be a bear of a job, much easier with the engine out. The cel will trip when deviation gets to about 8 deg.

[Roger1965]

I thought about that but if my car is not a candidate for an IMS replacement is it worth dropping that kind of coin? Also I have read on other threads here that the CL doesn't come on until 12° deviation is that right? The pads themselves maybe cheap but the labor sounds like it would be north of $3000.

And then I still have the bearing to worry about

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

I thought about that but if my car is not a candidate for an IMS replacement is it worth dropping that kind of coin?

If you replace the chain wear pads, the car will come back into spec and become a candidate for the retrofit. We see this all the time, nothing unusual.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

I thought about that but if my car is not a candidate for an IMS replacement is it worth dropping that kind of coin? Also I have read on other threads here that the CL doesn't come on until 12° deviation is that right? The pads themselves maybe cheap but the labor sounds like it would be north of $3000.

And then I still have the bearing to worry about

Between 8-12 degrees it will start coding; usually more towards 12 degrees.

[Roger1965]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

If you replace the chain wear pads, the car will come back into spec and become a candidate for the retrofit. We see this all the time, nothing unusual.

That's what I was thinking too. But I'm guessing that along with the IMS that would be a repair bill somewhere around $7000? Is that in the ballpark? I've been thinking about doing it I just can't really make up my mind

I feel kind of like a gambler trying to decide if I'm in too far to quit or if I should just cut my losses now

[san rensho]

What year? If its young 2000 build or older you probably have double row bearing whjch has a very low failure so just take a chance.

[Roger1965]

2001 Boxster. Could be either bearing but probably single row.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

That's what I was thinking too. But I'm guessing that along with the IMS that would be a repair bill somewhere around $7000? Is that in the ballpark? I've been thinking about doing it I just can't really make up my mind

I feel kind of like a gambler trying to decide if I'm in too far to quit or if I should just cut my losses now

The problem of owning one of these cars is that the resale price has dropped low, but the maintenance or engine replacement costs have not. You need to make a decision; either put the money into the car to fix what is wrong and prevent future catastrophic failure so you can enjoy it for as long as you please, or sell the car before the cam deviations become critical and move on.

We have customers that face that decision regularly. We just had a 2001 Boxster leave the shop after major upgrades (dual row IMS Solution, clutch, pressure plate, dual mass flywheel, throw out bearing, RMS, new AOS, plugs, new front brake air ducts, upgraded oil pump pressure spring and piston, etc., etc.) that all in cost a significant portion of the cars resale value. But the owner, who is also the original owner, loves the car and intends to keep it for a long time. Now he is facing years of ordinary maintence and problem free driving. It is all where your head is at.

[Heiko]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

I really love the car and it is in a somewhat rare color combination that I have not been able to find in another car over the last year.
Just musing here all opinions are welcome.

You said in your first post that you really love the car.... I guess the big question is do you want to keep it and keep loving it or sell it and possibly hate the next car or end up having to do all sorts of unexpected work to your next buy? Personally I don't think it will cost you more than 5K for the IMS and to do the variocam pads, but...
Decisions decisions :-)

[san rensho]

I dont know. To make it right you need to invest what the resale value of the car is. I would just drive it till it dies.

[Roger1965]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The problem of owning one of these cars is that the resale price has dropped low, but the maintenance or engine replacement costs have not. You need to make a decision; either put the money into the car to fix what is wrong and prevent future catastrophic failure so you can enjoy it for as long as you please, or sell the car before the cam deviations become critical and move on.

We have customers that face that decision regularly. We just had a 2001 Boxster leave the shop after major upgrades (dual row IMS Solution, clutch, pressure plate, dual mass flywheel, throw out bearing, RMS, new AOS, plugs, new front brake air ducts, upgraded oil pump pressure spring and piston, etc., etc.) that all in cost a significant portion of the cars resale value. But the owner, who is also the original owner, loves the car and intends to keep it for a long time. Now he is facing years of ordinary maintence and problem free driving. It is all where your head is at.

I have already spent more than the car's resale value. You have all helped me to see that my only option at this point is to finish the job.

I will then recover my investment through the years of enjoyment the car will give.

[paulofto]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

I will then recover my investment through the years of enjoyment the car will give.

That is exactly how you have to approach it. You will never get your money back, but enjoyment time (and peace of mind) is priceless.

[thstone]

Originally Posted by Roger1965

I have already spent more than the car's resale value. You have all helped me to see that my only option at this point is to finish the job.

I will then recover my investment through the years of enjoyment the car will give.

How many miles do you have and how many miles do you drive per year?

All engines will fail at some point and if your car is already high in mileage, then the replacement IMS bearing may not be buying you any extra time or miles.

[Roger1965]

It has 118,000 miles on it and I drive about 5,000 miles a year total, mostly in the Boxster. It is currently my daily driver. I put 3,000 miles on the boxster last year, driving it every day. I've never had an engine fail yet, my Vanagon had 300,000 miles on it. I sold that last summer.

I also have a motorcycle I use sometimes.

[Smallblock454]

Hi,

not shure about this decision. If you need a new clutch you need a clutch. And in my opinion that is the time when you should decide to do other things like IMS, chain rails, tensioners and so on.

Also if you have to do the chain rails as a workshop job to than afterwards do the ISMB, that totally burnt money, because you have to do some same things twice and so you buy some labour time twice.

The Durametric not always shows 100% right values on camshaft deviation. Just do it several times and you'll get several results. It's more like an indicator. If you want precise results on camshaft deviation you should measure the deviation right at the camshafts – which is possible.

A good running replacement engines costs less than 5K. While it's out of the engine you can do all repair and maintenance stuff easily.

So the question to me is would i spend lets say 9k in a car that is worth 10-12k if it's still running without problems? My opinion: no. Also keep in mind that there are a lot of other parts that wear and can fail besides the engine.

If the engine fails it fails. Maybe the situation will change if used engines raise in price. But at the moment i would go for a good used replacement engine that will be updated with a new IMSB, chain rails, chain tensioners, coil packs and so on.

Just my 2 cents

Regards, Markus

[johnsjmc]

I would probably do the clutch if needed and at that time determine if you have the single or double row bearing.(you only need to look at the flange). My 2001 had the double row and it was as good as new when I replaced it. If double just drive it ,if single consider replacing it without a warranty ( I think they only refund part cost anyway) because of the cam deviation. You have no metal in the filter so the bearing is likely not failing yet even if the chain rails are tired.. With over 100k on the car already save your money for another engine or car

[Need_for_speed]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

We have customers that face that decision regularly. We just had a 2001 Boxster leave the shop after major upgrades (dual row IMS Solution, clutch, pressure plate, dual mass flywheel, throw out bearing, RMS, new AOS, plugs, new front brake air ducts, upgraded oil pump pressure spring and piston, etc., etc.) that all in cost a significant portion of the cars resale value.

I just did exactly this with mine (with the exception of the oil pump work and brake ducts, which I would like to know more about...), in addition to wheel bearings, water pump, idler pulleys, drive belt, thermostat, and chain tensioners. The work cost me as much as I paid for the car. But here's the thing: my wife and I love, love, love this car like no other. It is a true source of joy for us to drive this little roadster. Totally impractical and expensive. This is the emotional approach to the dilemma.

OTOH, San Rensho has an excellent point. With notable exceptions (like air-cooled 911s), most cars are hideous investments. You will never get back one nickel you put into them. And these old Boxsters are some of the worst for maintenance costs, and they're definitely not appreciating in value. Maybe the smart and practical approach is to spend as little as possible on them and drive them until they die.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Need_for_speed

I just did exactly this with mine (with the exception of the oil pump work and brake ducts, which I would like to know more about...), in addition to wheel bearings, water pump, idler pulleys, drive belt, thermostat, and chain tensioners. The work cost me as much as I paid for the car. But here's the thing: my wife and I love, love, love this car like no other. It is a true source of joy for us to drive this little roadster. Totally impractical and expensive. This is the emotional approach to the dilemma.

OTOH, San Rensho has an excellent point. With notable exceptions (like air-cooled 911s), most cars are hideous investments. You will never get back one nickel you put into them. And these old Boxsters are some of the worst for maintenance costs, and they're definitely not appreciating in value. Maybe the smart and practical approach is to spend as little as possible on them and drive them until they die.

Some years back, Porsche released an updated spring and piston for the oil pump, with a bevel on the top edge of the piston and a slightly stronger spring which improve the oil pressure slightly, particularly at low RPM's when hot. Parts are about $20, and it is a 5 min. swap when the car is in the air. Part numbers are 997-107-125-01 for the spring, 996-107-127-53 for the piston, and 996-107-123-50 for the crush washer.

The front brake ducts are a GT car item, and much bigger than factory for improved brake cooling, particularly at the track. Funny bit is that again they are less than $20 for the pair; part numbers are 997-341-483-92, and 997-341-484-92 (left and right). As the old units pop right out, these larger units are another 5 min. project.