to change oil or not????

[landrovered]

Are you pulling the plugs and fogging the cylinders with oil before storage?

Also yours is a bit of a trick answer in that the stricter the temperature control is the less formation of condensation there is inside the engine. Also long term storage involves desiccant packs to remove moisture from the air which encapsulates the vehicle in a plastic bags or pods.

Secondly the oil may as well be in a can if it just sits in the sump, It will not degrade if it is kept at a constant temp and humidity and the surface area is limited to the atmosphere.

So remove moisture and keep a constant temp and you can store organic compounds for thousands of years (mummies) so given that a car is a piece of cake.

In a normal garage without humidity control and a non heated area, I would absolutely start my car and allow it to come to temperature every two weeks.

Call me crazy.

[JFP in PA]

OK, you're crazy.

We do not pull plugs or fog engines unless the car is going to be stored for very prolonged periods (1-2 years or more without running). The cars we store are detailed, serviced, filled with StaBil dosed fuel, moved to the storage facility, covered with flannel sheets to prevent the accumulation of dust, and connected to Ctek maintainers. Ambient temperatures inside the facility are held at 55-60F and around 40% RH through the winter. No plastic bags, no desiccants. And then they sit for as much as 5 months.

We actually had a Turbo in storage for a customer, who is a Marine officer, that happened to be deployed to Afghanistan while the car was stored. Unfortunately, he was wounded on his tour, and we ended up keeping the car for him for well over a year before he was able to recover it. Because of how long the car sat, we went over it carefully before returning it to him. It started with the first turn of the key after the dust covers were removed, and a complete check out at the shop revealed with was fine, and still is to this day.

The moisture you need to worry about is the moisture (and fuel) that gets into the oil during normal running, and starts the oxidation and ultimate degradation of the oil. The more miles and heat cycles the oil has seen, the higher the levels of aldehydes, ketones, hydro peroxides and carboxylic acid formation. The process is cumulative, the more run time the oil has seen, the more of these compounds you will find in the oil, which is why you should change it before putting the car up.

[landrovered]

Where I live the average morning humidity is 81% and the average afternoon humidity is 54%. I have had a v8 seize solid on the engine stand full of oil in the garage. I'm not taking any chances, I am going to keep my cars running on a regular basis. Nice chatting with you though.

[landrovered]

I am interested in how people store museum quality cars like the folks at the Porsche Museum. I also recognize that most of our cars are not museum pieces, not to say it is not good to do things right but in my mind it's like doing MRIs or chemo on a dog...not cost effective considering the economic value of the subject. Systems are available such as carcapsule.com or car bag.com and at least where I live in Georgia, dessicants and fogging cylinders are in order. Also temperature control seems to be the primary way to stop condensation from forming within the engine itself. There is an oil which claims to exceed the 500 hour humidity test used by the military and that is
Joe Gibbs racing oil in case you are interested.

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by landrovered

I am interested in how people store museum quality cars like the folks at the Porsche Museum.

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

Thanks for this link. The clutch sticking concept was a new one for me...good stuff!

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by landrovered

Thanks for this link. The clutch sticking concept was a new one for me...good stuff!

That was enlightening for me as well. I also find it interesting that they talk about axle stands and putting tires off the ground, letting suspension hang. Maybe another concept that is good for long term storage but not for short term. I've always heard that you don't want suspension hanging.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

This sparked my interest. Found this link from the National Park service in regards to preparing a car for museum exhibition. Granted, its an older article, but this seems to address a lot of the things you'd talked about, but does still seem excessive for 4 month storage.

Link fixed: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwid6Kna8cnJAhWG6IMKHW8TAbkQFggfMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nps.gov%2Fmuseum%2Fpublicatio ns%2Fconserveogram%2F10-03.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHsR_jFBG4p9wQ6-GXp5Inqf9c0tQ&bvm=bv.108538919,d.amc

Interesting info

It all makes sense for what is basically changing the car from drivable to display and undrivable.

With short term storage for those that don't want drive their cars during the winter that would be extremely excessive.

Like many things, including oil, IMSB, tires, brakes, etc., its your car do what you want with it. If you choose to ignore advise from those who know, feel free to.

For me, if I was to store the car for a few months, $60 in oil is a small price to pay for possibly preventing a problem later

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by JayG

Interesting info

It all makes sense for what is basically changing the car from drivable to display and undrivable.

With short term storage for those that don't want drive their cars during the winter that would be extremely excessive.

Like many things, including oil, IMSB, tires, brakes, etc., its your car do what you want with it. If you choose to ignore advise from those who know, feel free to.

For me, if I was to store the car for a few months, $60 in oil is a small price to pay for possibly preventing a problem later

Yeah I feel the same way. I'd rather have someone laugh at me for my overkill maintenance habits than be laughing at me for having a roller that I could've done something about.

I'm also going to be checking museum car to see if the clutch has been blocked now. Lol.

[landrovered]

You can put the jack stands on the lower control arms and keep the suspension compressed while the tires are off the ground. Flat spotting was the worst part of the 993 resurrection I did. The car was being used infrequently, the owner would start it from time to time then it wouldn't start any more so it sat for five years gathering dust. The fuel was gelled, I replaced the fuel pump as it was the reason the car would not start. I drained the bad gas and cleaned out the fuel system and got it running. It took quite a while for the tires to round out. Also it smoked like a banshee until the oil from the heat exchangers burned out of the exhaust (a common thing with air cooled 911s that have been sitting). Flat spotting is a concern IMO for an over winter storage. There is a product called raceramps that prevents flat spotting without jacking the car but they are $180 a set.

[jdraupp]

Yes flat spotting is a concern, I just find it easier to over inflate the tires rather than using jack stands, but I did not know that you could compress the suspension by utilizing the control arms as jack points.

Sad to see someone let a 993 get that bad. You own it now I assume?

[landrovered]

Originally Posted by jdraupp

Sad to see someone let a 993 get that bad. You own it now I assume?

I wish, no it is a customers car. Gorgeous 98 993 imported by owner from Germany (he is German). Wide body with more rubber than I have ever seen under a 993.

[mikefocke]

I lived in Northern VA where the temperatures got to maybe 15F but seldom lower. I stored my car outside for 5 years in winters on an asphalt driveway with a car cover over it (Noah fabric) and a cTec battery maintainer plugged in via a long extension cord. There were times I'd scrape ice or 8" of snow off the cover to take it out (I didn't buy the car to collect it or expect appreciation.). As long as the roads were thawed and the temps were over 40F (as I had summer tires). I probably hibernated it no more than 3 or 4 weeks before I got a chance to take it out and when I did I went 20+ miles one way and as much on the return. Never an issue. Never had a UOA done but also never saw any symptoms I could attribute to sitting that long or using it in that pattern. I did 5k oil changes with good but not great oil, not slavish with any one brand. I just heard from the fifth owner and he says the engine is doing fine.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

I lived in Northern VA where the temperatures got to maybe 15F but seldom lower. I stored my car outside for 5 years in winters on an asphalt driveway with a car cover over it (Noah fabric) and a cTec battery maintainer plugged in via a long extension cord. There were times I'd scrape ice or 8" of snow off the cover to take it out (I didn't buy the car to collect it or expect appreciation.). As long as the roads were thawed and the temps were over 40F (as I had summer tires). I probably hibernated it no more than 3 or 4 weeks before I got a chance to take it out and when I did I went 20+ miles one way and as much on the return. Never an issue. Never had a UOA done but also never saw any symptoms I could attribute to sitting that long or using it in that pattern. I did 5k oil changes with good but not great oil, not slavish with any one brand. I just heard from the fifth owner and he says the engine is doing fine.

That's the way to own a Porsche. Don't be afraid of driving it in the winter

[epapp]

DONT change the oil and let that be an excuse for you to 'have' to take it out once a week. Problem solved.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by epapp

DONT change the oil and let that be an excuse for you to 'have' to take it out once a week. Problem solved.

Best answer!!!!!

[jdraupp]

Originally Posted by epapp

DONT change the oil and let that be an excuse for you to 'have' to take it out once a week. Problem solved.

If I could afford to have an extra set of winter tires laying around, yes. However the way they salt these roads up here I'd have a pitted rusty mess in a year or two...so I'm kind to my baby and I park her.

JayG, you got an extra bedroom and spot in the garage? Me and the box are coming...

[mikefocke]

We had salt. There was snow piled on the side of the road but if the roads were clear and it was melting. And then in NC they brine the bridges.

The Boxster is well rustproofed and I've never seen rust on anything but some bolts on the exhaust pipe. Not a 356 or a 912 in that regard.

Sadly these 986 era cars are $5-15k folks, not collector cars you will sell to fund your retirement.

[epapp]

I can't say I experience driving in the snow ever (LOL) but can't you just spray the car down with fresh water (e.g. hose) after driving in snow/salts to mitigate 'rust' worries?

Heck, I want to take my boxster to the snow and let her loose.

[JayG]

Originally Posted by epapp

I can't say I experience driving in the snow ever (LOL) but can't you just spray the car down with fresh water (e.g. hose) after driving in snow/salts to mitigate 'rust' worries?

Heck, I want to take my boxster to the snow and let her loose.

Just bring it down here to San Diego and play in the snow




Just kidding, we don't get no snow