which ims bearing upgrade

[Luv2Box]

I had the dual row in my '99 Boxster changed in 2012 and it has 32K miles on it. I read up on the bearing before having it installed and what was being advertised, at that time, was a recommended change at 50K miles. The statistics, though, indicated ceramic bearings outlasted steel by a 5:1 ratio. What I've never understood, or found an answer for, is what is the starting point for the ratio of 5:1? If my OEM bearing had 84K miles on it and was still in good shape does that mean 420K miles? If it is 5:1 what do I need to change the LN at 50K? Perhaps someone can explain the reasoning.

[boxster]

Also,maybe someone can enlighten me regarding my engine. I read somewhere that if you have an x on the engine no,than the engine might have been changed by the factory. My engine number is M96/2065x14718. Does that mean my engine had been changed at one point?

[mikefocke]

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/39974-engine-identification/

[boxster]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic/39974-engine-identification/

Thanks for the link. I had read something already about the letters AT being rebuilt engines,but I don't have AT, I just have an X as a letter in between the other numbers. Does that also mean a rebuilt engine? I need to know so that ill know which bearing to order. I think I read something about an x being at the end of the vin number,but mine is in the middle, so not sure.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Luv2Box

I had the dual row in my '99 Boxster changed in 2012 and it has 32K miles on it. I read up on the bearing before having it installed and what was being advertised, at that time, was a recommended change at 50K miles. The statistics, though, indicated ceramic bearings outlasted steel by a 5:1 ratio. What I've never understood, or found an answer for, is what is the starting point for the ratio of 5:1? If my OEM bearing had 84K miles on it and was still in good shape does that mean 420K miles? If it is 5:1 what do I need to change the LN at 50K? Perhaps someone can explain the reasoning.

One word: Caution. LN goes on their experience with the bearings, not pat ratios.

[Gelbster]

Boxster in Malta :
Please keep asking questions. They may seem trivial to the experts and they may get impatient with you .But even Jake has responded to you. The questions you have asked probably have concerned others who were to afraid of the 'responses' to ask.
Because of your questions some interesting facts have emerged - for example who knew about Jake's statistic on oil found/not found in the IMS tube with various bearing & seal arrangements ?
An enquiring mind should be welcomed here.
Thank you for your questions.
Cam plugs - in view of your location, perhaps EBay Germany would be a good source? Part # is 99610421554

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Boxster in Malta :
Please keep asking questions. They may seem trivial to the experts and they may get impatient with you .But even Jake has responded to you. The questions you have asked probably have concerned others who were to afraid of the 'responses' to ask.
Because of your questions some interesting facts have emerged - for example who knew about Jake's statistic on oil found/not found in the IMS tube with various bearing & seal arrangements ?
An enquiring mind should be welcomed here.
Thank you for your questions.
Cam plugs - in view of your location, perhaps EBay Germany would be a good source? Part # is 99610421554

Hehe, thanks for your comment, I know that sometimes I might go too far with my questions,but since as I said before I know nothing in this field,I like learning new stuff and i learned a lot in this thread, never imagined it would turn out the way it did, and I must admit I found it very entertaining and interesting. I was just looking for an independent unbiased opinion of what the forum members think Is the best ims replacement bearing available and lo and behold the manufacturers got involved as well��. I know people like Jake raby must be sick of hearing these questions,and find certain questions silly,but I like to be given reasons as to WHY things work the way they do, instead of "because thats the way it is". I ask not to get people annoyed but to learn from people who know much more than me and who I know are professional in their work. Thanks for guiding me where to buy cam plug covers,ill order them as soon as I'm SURE which direction to go to regarding the ims bearing. Now I'm sorry,but im going to ask one of those "annoying" questions that I know would drive the manufacturers up the wall. To my ignorance I would think that the DOF together with the retrofit ceramic bearing would be the best of both worlds. Is it, or would both applications together be a hazard to each other? I know people say ceramic bearings can withstand high operating temperatures,but would they be "happier" working in more oil or not? And another thing, I just learned that there are full ceramic bearings and hybrid bearings,where apparently the cage is still made of steel. Any idea why the retrofit kit isn't full ceramic?

[Gelbster]

Sometimes the best(?) answer is to just follow what has worked best for others .
No need for DOF + Hybrid ceramic bearing. Splash is sufficient. If you wanted to experiment, you could buy a DOF kit and substitute a hybrid ceramic bearing for the generic steel bearing usually included.The generic bearing is only worth $5.
Nobody sells a full ceramic IMSB?
TechnoFix DOF - Solves the IMS issue in 1997 - 2008 Porsches
Is this what you mean? check size.
http://www.amazon.com/6204-2RS-Bearing-Hybrid-Ceramic-20x47x14/dp/B002BBEYNU
A bigger challenge may be to find an IMSB tool kit at a reasonable price that ships to Malta?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intermediate-Shaft-Seal-IMS-Retrofit-Pro-Tool-Kit-for-Boxster-986-996-997-99-/131377522345?hash=item1e96b5e6a9:g:h-wAAOSw0vBUi2es

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Gelbster

Sometimes the best(?) answer is to just follow what has worked best for others .
No need for DOF + Hybrid ceramic bearing. Splash is sufficient. If you wanted to experiment, you could buy a DOF kit and substitute a hybrid ceramic bearing for the generic steel bearing usually included.The generic bearing is only worth $5.
Nobody sells a full ceramic IMSB?
TechnoFix DOF - Solves the IMS issue in 1997 - 2008 Porsches
Is this what you mean? check size.
6204-2RS Bearing Hybrid Ceramic Sealed 20x47x14: Deep Groove Ball Bearings: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
A bigger challenge may be to find an IMSB tool kit at a reasonable price that ships to Malta?
Intermediate Shaft Seal IMS Retrofit Pro Tool Kit for Boxster 986 996 997 99 | eBay

I was just curious as to why LN dont do their bearing fully ceramic,is it cause of cost,or is a hybrid ceramic the best way to go? Is it the cage or the balls themselves that will fail first in a hybrid ceramic bearing? Yes,thats the sight I will have to buy everything from, design 911 in the UK,including bearings. Nothing comes cheap, thats the problem,its gonna coast literally thousands to get this done,since shipping is quite expensive,and I'm going to be ordering clutch kit and flywheel as well, so that's why I want to spend wisely �� I think I get the impression that the majority here lean towards LN's bearings,right? Btw,how many cam covers will I need to replace on a 5 chain car, is it 2? And do you know the part number for the micro encapsulated bolts as well? Design 911 sell micro encapsulated bolts for clutch and flywheel,any idea I those fit the ims bearing flange?

[Jake Raby]

A full ceramic bearing would cost around 3K per unit to have made. On top of that the compatibility between the ceramic balls and the hardened steel races is NOT an issue. The only time it becomes an issue is when debris contamination finds its way between these surfaces.

This will happen with any portion of the engine, not just the IMSB, the same things happens with cylinder and piston wear, and the list goes on.

Just ship your car to Flat 6 Innovations and have them do for you what they did for me and start enjoying that car and living life.

Just do it.

The sooner you do, the sooner you can sleep at night

That makes too much sense. Thats too easy.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

A full ceramic bearing would cost around 3K per unit to have made. On top of that the compatibility between the ceramic balls and the hardened steel races is NOT an issue. The only time it becomes an issue is when debris contamination finds its way between these surfaces.

This will happen with any portion of the engine, not just the IMSB, the same things happens with cylinder and piston wear, and the list goes on.




That makes too much sense. Thats too easy.

Thats great to know, that there's no issue with the steel races and the ceramic balls!

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by boxster

Hehe, thanks for your comment, I know that sometimes I might go too far with my questions,but since as I said before I know nothing in this field,I like learning new stuff and i learned a lot in this thread, never imagined it would turn out the way it did, and I must admit I found it very entertaining and interesting. I was just looking for an independent unbiased opinion of what the forum members think Is the best ims replacement bearing available and lo and behold the manufacturers got involved as well��. I know people like Jake raby must be sick of hearing these questions,and find certain questions silly,but I like to be given reasons as to WHY things work the way they do, instead of "because thats the way it is". I ask not to get people annoyed but to learn from people who know much more than me and who I know are professional in their work. Thanks for guiding me where to buy cam plug covers,ill order them as soon as I'm SURE which direction to go to regarding the ims bearing. Now I'm sorry,but im going to ask one of those "annoying" questions that I know would drive the manufacturers up the wall. To my ignorance I would think that the DOF together with the retrofit ceramic bearing would be the best of both worlds. Is it, or would both applications together be a hazard to each other? I know people say ceramic bearings can withstand high operating temperatures,but would they be "happier" working in more oil or not? And another thing, I just learned that there are full ceramic bearings and hybrid bearings,where apparently the cage is still made of steel. Any idea why the retrofit kit isn't full ceramic?

Simple: It doesn't need to be.

The LN bearing performs excellently without a direct source of engine oil; the 20K+ units running around on the street attest to that fact. And, if LN could think of any circumstance where an oil feed system would be advantageous, they are perfectly capable of producing one, after all, they make the IMS Solution kits, but they have never seen the need.

You are way, way overthinking this. We have customers that put less the 1K miles on their cars every year, and those cars are LN equipped; none have ever had a problem. Other customers with LN bearings average over 35K a year, with the exact same results. The system works, exactly the way it is designed to work.

This entire dialog entered the "paralysis by analysis" mode about a week ago..........

[boxster]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

Simple: It doesn't need to be.

The LN bearing performs excellently without a direct source of engine oil; the 20K+ units running around on the street attest to that fact. And, if LN could think of any circumstance where an oil feed system would be advantageous, they are perfectly capable of producing one, after all, they make the IMS Solution kits, but they have never seen the need.

You are way, way overthinking this. We have customers that put less the 1K miles on their cars every year, and those cars are LN equipped; none have ever had a problem. Other customers with LN bearings average over 35K a year, with the exact same results. The system works, exactly the way it is designed to work.

This entire dialog entered the "paralysis by analysis" mode about a week ago..........

You are right,I do overthink sometimes,lol!! What I still cant do understand is why LN life their bearings at only 4&6 years respectively for the single and double row,or 50k and 75k miles.
Since many cars have done much more than that on the original bearings and their bearings are proven to be much stronger I would have thought they'd have a longer life