which ims bearing upgrade

[Smallblock454]

Originally Posted by boxster

So, given that I am not planning on removing the engine from the car, LN's bearings without additional oil feeds is the best solution for my 99 spec car?
Also, as i stated before,I dont use the car much, and since statistically those are the type of cars that suffer the most,will LN's bearings have the same problems with cars that dont get used much? They say they life their bearings at 75000 miles or 6 years, since I don't use the car much, if after 6 years the bearings will have 20000 miles on them, will they still have to be changed?

Hi,

first of all you'll need to make shure that the installation is 100% correct. If you don't have the tools, knowledge or know how i would say change your motor oil yearly with a high qualitiy oil, change and examine the filter and leave the bearing alone.

Additionally - if you have a double row bearing engine. The bearings of these engines don't fail that much as single row bearings. And there are a lot of others causes why theses engines can fail. So don't go crazy on thinking abount the bearing - that's my personal opinion.

Well, 6 years or 75k miles means 6 years or 75k miles. Perhaps Jake can answer this question. Also Jake should give you a recommendation which of his systems match best for your car.

Regards
Markus

[Jake Raby]

Also Jake should give you a recommendation which of his systems match best for your car.

The only one thats Patented. The only one that removes at least 11 wear parts from the system. The IMS Solution.

Its funny how people seem to have forgotten the days of being told the IMS Bearing was impossible to replace. Its funny how those that have come along later have ridden our coat tails, and used the tools that I invented, and the procedure that I developed to install their copy cat systems.

I remember making the first post about removing an IMS Bearing, and at that time I was told that I was lying, that the bearing was impossible to extract, or replace. Today, the tide has turned, and what was once black art has become a market that want to get their part of. Too bad they'll always be one step, and several years behind.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

The only one thats Patented. The only one that removes at least 11 wear parts from the system. The IMS Solution.

Its funny how people seem to have forgotten the days of being told the IMS Bearing was impossible to replace. Its funny how those that have come along later have ridden our coat tails, and used the tools that I invented, and the procedure that I developed to install their copy cat systems.

I remember making the first post about removing an IMS Bearing, and at that time I was told that I was lying, that the bearing was impossible to extract, or replace. Today, the tide has turned, and what was once black art has become a market that want to get their part of. Too bad they'll always be one step, and several years behind.

Yes but the ims solution is going to take a while to be available for the dualrow from what I understand,right?
Can you tell me what the ceramic bearings act like on "garage queens", are they as sensitive as the conventional type when the car isn't used much, or are they more resistant? And how about the question I asked about the life of the bearings,if after 6 years they have 20000 miles, will they still have to be changed?

[911monty]

Maybe it's time to think about something that was discussed in the What type oil filter do you use thread. Oil filter filtration is not 100% they have a allowable particulate size that passes through them. Some of these particles are ferrous, this is why the Filtermag was developed. No ROLLER type bearing likes to have debris contamination. So continuous oil spray or splash lubrication has it's downside. I am not affiliated with or in any way compensated by LN or Jake, but the only bearing that has the clearance to allow this debris is the plain type bearing in the LN Solution system. Choose your own medicine.

[Gelbster]

Monty :"No ROLLER type bearing likes .."
Do you mean deep-groove-ball bearing or roller. There is a huuuuge difference in IMSB terms. Don't get us started on that again!
Filtration - suggest you research the difference between the OEM filter and the LN full flow+Napa Gold spin-on filter. By-pass is a more significant risk than filter pore size according to the experts.
LN has you covered:
Oil Change Bundle for MY 1997 - 2008
http://lnengineering.com/oil-change-bundle-configurable.html

[dxterity]

Originally Posted by boxster

as i stated before,I dont use the car much, and since statistically those are the type of cars that suffer the most,will LN's bearings have the same problems with cars that dont get used much? They say they life their bearings at 75000 miles or 6 years, since I don't use the car much, if after 6 years the bearings will have 20000 miles on them, will they still have to be changed?

I just bought a '99 in August and immediately took it to a certified Porsche mechanic in Toronto and had the IMS done. He also said that it's now good for 6 years. He also put a stamp under the drivers door stating the date the IMS was done (apparently this is something that S/B done whenever any IMS is done). I asked him if the IMS replacement was related to time or km driven and he said time, regardless of how many km were driven.

[boxster]

Originally Posted by dxterity

I just bought a '99 in August and immediately took it to a certified Porsche mechanic in Toronto and had the IMS done. He also said that it's now good for 6 years. He also put a stamp under the drivers door stating the date the IMS was done (apparently this is something that S/B done whenever any IMS is done). I asked him if the IMS replacement was related to time or km driven and he said time, regardless of how many km were driven.

Yep, thats what I'm thinking as well, that no matter the miles,since its now considered to be a service part, you have to change it every six years (for dual row)

[Smallblock454]

So if someone asks what DLC means: Design of DLC coatings for high speed hybrid ball bearings

Regards
Markus

[Gelbster]

Honoring those who invent or provide ideas/inspiration is important because we Forum members benefit. One amateur pioneer in the IMSB saga was "Feelyx". Don't hear much from him now but here is a thread where he begins to develop his theory of grease wash-out. It is interesting because his ideas were developed very publicly on this Forum. Best of all he was very polite and generous in sharing his amateur test data.
http://986forum.com/forums/general-discussions/33893-ims-failure-not-myth.html
And yes, it did evenyually become an IMSB product.
So yes, credit where credit is due and Forums like this are certainly instrumental in problem-solving products.

[Smallblock454]

@ boxster:

Well, i think it's a common, human problem. If you ask 10 people you'll get 10 opinions.

Personally i respect all the 10 poeple for their knowledge, but than i do my own research, look for facts and try to form my own opinion.

First step is to understand why the Porsche OEM solution might fail. Than you should do a research what solutions are out there and why poeple think their solution is best, what maintenance is requested, are there any guaranties that are really can be callled guaranties. How often were the after market products sold, how often did they fail, or are there any other problems… and so on.

And than there is the time consuming part. Research for facts. Research on bearing types, reseach on high quality bearing manufacturers, coatings, quality levels, how to replace things best, research on engineering solutions for the problem. Talking with engine developers, engine engineers, mechanics.

All hard facts about the OEM bearings (dimensions, type, rpm) can be found in this forum.

In the end you might have your own opinion.

Maybe this is not the answer you have asked for, but this was my way after getting stucked besides an IMS bearing war - we also had that in the german Porsche forums.

Regards from Germany
Markus

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Smallblock454

@ boxster:

Well, i think it's a common, human problem. If you ask 10 people you'll get 10 opinions.

Personally i respect all the 10 poeple for their knowledge, but than i do my own research, look for facts and try to form my own opinion.

First step is to understand why the Porsche OEM solution might fail. Than you should do a research what solutions are out there and why poeple think their solution is best, what maintenance is requested, are there any guaranties that are really can be callled guaranties. How often were the after market products sold, how often did they fail, or are there any other problems… and so on.

And than there is the time consuming part. Research for facts. Research on bearing types, reseach on high quality bearing manufacturers, coatings, quality levels, how to replace things best, research on engineering solutions for the problem. Talking with engine developers, engine engineers, mechanics.

All hard facts about the OEM bearings (dimensions, type, rpm) can be found in this forum.

In the end you might have your own opinion.

Maybe this is not the answer you have asked for, but this was my way after getting stucked besides an IMS bearing war - we also had that in the german Porsche forums.

Regards from Germany
Markus

I totally understand and appreciate your opinion. I know that everyone thinks his invention is best, and obviously I dont blame them, but as you said, experience and r&d are very important in this field. I now read that injectors must be at their optimum as not to contaminate the oil with fuel, which reduce life of bearings. I'm wondering if its worth taking the injectors out to clean them now!

[Col986]

I did the LN retrofit on my car this year. For sure the IMS Solution is the best fix, but also costs more. From what I've read, the retrofit failure rate is way less than 0.1%. On a 12 year old car I'm happy with those odds and think other failures are now more likely. My original non ceramic bearing lasted 12 years, hope to get the same or more out of the LN bearing.

Jake if you're reading, why is there a time limit on the retrofit, my car is a bit of a garage queen doing only 5000km/yr. I have your oil filter adapter & magnetic sump plug fitted, I also have a FilterMag installed & change the oil each 9 months with DT40. (I know you recommend 6 monthly, but I compromised between my normal 12 months). Seems to me under these conditions my new ceramic bearing should outlive the original?

[boxster]

Originally Posted by Col986

I did the LN retrofit on my car this year. For sure the IMS Solution is the best fix, but also costs more. From what I've read, the retrofit failure rate is way less than 0.1%. On a 12 year old car I'm happy with those odds and think other failures are now more likely. My original non ceramic bearing lasted 12 years, hope to get the same or more out of the LN bearing.

Jake if you're reading, why is there a time limit on the retrofit, my car is a bit of a garage queen doing only 5000km/yr. I have your oil filter adapter & magnetic sump plug fitted, I also have a FilterMag installed & change the oil each 9 months with DT40. (I know you recommend 6 monthly, but I compromised between my normal 12 months). Seems to me under these conditions my new ceramic bearing should outlive the original?

Thats exactly what I was thinking. If after the recommended dual row bearing swap at 6 years, I would have done 20000 miles on the bearings,will they still need to be changed?

[Jake Raby]

All ball & bearings have a time in service rating from their manufacturer. You have to look hard to find these in most instances.

The reason why time matters, even if the car is not driven, is because people tend to service cars that sit static LESS than those that are driven daily. The cars that sit need twice as frequent oil services based on my direct experience, having collected oil samples from hundreds of engines over the last 10-12 years. Some of these case studies were from my Canadian customers who store the car 1/2- 3/4 of the year.

NOT driving the car continues to be the WORST operating environment that it can be exposed to.

[Jake Raby]

Even if a failure progresses to stage 3 (bearing stays intact, just tons of debris) the engine is toast. You'll never remove all the debris, and no oil filter is good enough to catch enough of it at those quantities.

If it has gone that far, please use a competitors product, and when it fails make sure that you are very vocal about the fact that their part blew up!

[Smallblock454]

@ Gelbster:

As we know there can go a lot wrong when installing or deinstalling a roller bearing.

Plug: which ims bearing upgrade I definetly go with a machined tube style made of a soft aluminium alloy, because it can't twist and will expand more to seal. Also a soft metal won't hurt the IMS tube.

No holes. You'll have overpressure in the IMS tube. The tube was designed for that, because of the sealed OEM bearing.

Regards
Markus

[JFP in PA]

The pressure inside the IMS shaft is irrelevant if it is sealed and has no oil in it.

[Jake Raby]

The ONLY reason the bye is sealed with the IMS Solution is because we've seen IMS shaft assemblies loose their press fit, and simply fall apart (MOF#24).

The assembly is made of 4 pieces, if oil pressure, and volume (under pressure)can enter the tube, the possibility exists that a hydraulic event may occur that could assist in the shaft separating.

Plugging the IMS tube eliminates this, as no hydraulic pressure exists within the shaft, and if a shaft disconnects, its simply bad luck.

Now, the technology that uses the IMS tube to transfer oil (via pressure) into the bearing has the possibility of catalyzing this issue, under the right conditions.

The decision to plug the IMS Shaft for the IMS Solution took me 3 years to finally decide on. I ran many engines both ways, and NEVER had an issue. In the end, plugging the shaft was the best possible way to go. Why? Because the IMS shaft has a volume of 2/3 of 1 quart of oil. If the shaft is not plugged, as the engine operates the active oil level drops, and if the oil is checked within a few minutes it always shows low. When this occurs, someone adds oil, and then the next morning the engine is overfilled by 1/2 qt, as the IMS tube has drained back to the sump slowly overnight.

Yes, now you see why I never sleep.

[RandallNeighbour]

Ha! It's all about addressing the potential "what if's" isn't it?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by RandallNeighbour

Ha! It's all about addressing the potential "what if's" isn't it?

They never end....