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Old 08-18-2015, 12:06 PM   #1
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Clutch slave update. I am so screwed.

So a new development after my previous post. Clutch slave replacement question, and a bit of a rant.. Put in the new clutch slave last night, smiling smugly to my self that removing and putting in new slave took only about an hour, including bleeding. The peripherals, jacking the car up, getting the skid plate, diagnals off etc was a much bigger pain.

After the change, before I start the car, the pedal is hard, as smooth as silk, and returns all the way up but I notice it doesn't quite go all the way to the floor. So I fire it up and try to put it in gear, any gear, no go. When I start it in gear with the pedal down, it starts and the car moves as soon as the motor catches. I push on the pedal hard a couple of times to see if I can get the pedal to go to the floor and then nothing, no pressure, the pedal is all the way to the floor, no clutch and a puddle of hydraulic fluid.

The clutch is behaving exactly like the clutch in this post. Clutch not fully disengaging - why?

So I'm resigned to fact that I'm going to have to replace the clutch and associated parts which means spending a couple of days under the car, in Miami Florida, during the hottest most humid, mosquito infested time of the year, during the rainy season, where I get a flash flood coursing through the car port every time it rains, with me working on the car on my back. Oh to have a lift!

But I digress. Now to a couple of questions. Is it absotively, posolutely the pivot arm or a pressure plate failure? Could it be the spring assist on the clutch pedal mechanism under the dash? I had replaced the stiff spring with a very soft one, but there doesn't appear to be any roughness or binding and when the slave had pressure, the pedal went all the way to the up stop position.

Second. I'm hoping that with a 6/99 build, that i have a dual row IMSB. If thats the case, I intend to just leave it in there after removing the bearing seal. Can I check the bearing for smoothnes and play manually by just removing the center nut at the IMSB flange or do I have to remove the flange to examine it, and If I can examine the bearing with the flange intact, I don't need to lock the cams or set the motor at TDC, right?

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Last edited by san rensho; 08-18-2015 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:14 PM   #2
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It sounds like classic clutch fork crack/bend. Oh the joys.

You will have to take the flange off to examine the bearing, but without taking the bearing completely out, there should be no reason to have to lock the cams.

My pedal too stopped hitting the floor once my fork cracked. Twas a sad day.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:22 PM   #3
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You will have to take the flange off to examine the bearing, but without taking the bearing completely out, there should be no reason to have to lock the cams.
I would not do that. Without the engine locked tat TDC, cams locked ,and the tensioners pulled, the shaft will jump to one side due to valve spring pressure, and could jump time in the process, if you could even get the flange cover off. We have had more than one car flat bedded into the shop after doing exactly what you describe. Bad idea.........

If you are going to remove the flange, you need to go the entire route or risk problems.
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Last edited by JFP in PA; 08-18-2015 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:32 PM   #4
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I would not do that. Without the engine locked tat TDC, cams locked ,and the tensioners pulled, the shaft will jump to one side due to valve spring pressure, and could jump time in the process. We have had more than one car flat bedded into the shop after doing exactly what you describe. Bad idea.........

If you are going to remove the flange, you need to go the entire route or risk problems.
My question is, can I just remove the nut at the center of the flange, and then spin and push on the shaft to check for smoothness and play of the IMSB and if removing the nut will allow me to check on the bearing, do I have to lock the cams if I am not disturbing the flange?
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1973 Opel Manta
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1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:35 PM   #5
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My question is, can I just remove the nut at the center of the flange, and then spin and push on the shaft to check for smoothness and play of the IMSB and if removing the nut will allow me to check on the bearing, do I have to lock the cams if I am not disturbing the flange?
Doing it the way you describe, you are really not going to get an idea of how smooth or loose the bearing is as the center bolt will still be under some load with the flange cover in place unless you unload the shaft, so you may not even be able to move it after just removing the nut.

If you are not going to replace the bearing, I would do one of two things: Lock the engine and cams, remove the flange and test the bearing, then remove the rear seal from the bearing so it can lubricate and put the car back together; or just leave it alone as it is.

To find out what kind of condition the bearing is in, you are going to be 95% of the way to replacing it, so you really need to think through what you want to do here. You really don't want to be kicking your self two months from now about not having replaced the bearing when you had the chance.
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Old 08-18-2015, 03:09 PM   #6
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Doing it the way you describe, you are really not going to get an idea of how smooth or loose the bearing is as the center bolt will still be under some load with the flange cover in place unless you unload the shaft, so you may not even be able to move it after just removing the nut.

If you are not going to replace the bearing, I would do one of two things: Lock the engine and cams, remove the flange and test the bearing, then remove the rear seal from the bearing so it can lubricate and put the car back together; or just leave it alone as it is.

To find out what kind of condition the bearing is in, you are going to be 95% of the way to replacing it, so you really need to think through what you want to do here. You really don't want to be kicking your self two months from now about not having replaced the bearing when you had the chance.


Can't argue with that logic. I'm cheap, so I don't want to invest at least $800 extra for the LN bearing (assuming I can beg or rent the installation tools for cheap), on a car that has 150,000 k miles on it (with the original clutch).

But on the other hand, I will be spending lots of money replacing clutch parts (clutch plate, PP, RB, pivot, guide tube) that are going to last another 100k miles on a car I bought four years ago for $7500.00. Motor still runs strong, transmission in great shape, I intend to run it until the motor fails, so the new bearing makes sense.

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Previous cars

1973 Opel Manta
1969(?) Fiat 850 Convertible
1979 Lancia Beta Coupe
1981 Alfa Romeo GTV 6
1985 Alfa Romeo Graduate
1985 Porsche 944
1989 Porsche 944
1981 Triumph TR7
1989 (?) Alfa Romeo Milano
1993 Saab 9000
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