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Old 01-27-2006, 11:33 AM   #1
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Question Has anyone tried sport throttle bodies for the boxster any year ?

What pros does a sport throttle body have over a stock one, other than saying "sport"jeje. Is it a worthy investement or just another way of saying consume more fuel yeah its sporty!!! I have seen them on s-Car-go websites and fvd. Pretty expensive for something that doesnt give any plus to the car that I know of hope to have feedback on this subject
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Old 01-27-2006, 01:28 PM   #2
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I've seen some of those same parts. My guess is they are only effective if used in tandem with other modifications. It will be interesting to see if anyone has one in their car.
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Old 01-27-2006, 03:16 PM   #3
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Hi,

Many cars are seemingly Made for Modding. Great improvements can be made to the OEM design.

Not so with the Boxster. Porsche did a fair job of maximizing the design on their own. There are relatively mild gains, for what to me at least, seems an exorbitant cost.

Lots of Suppliers out there make some pretty hefty claims, but when you boil it all down, the gains available in HP, Braking and Handling are really limited, especially when compared to some of the gains achievable with some other cars, such as Mustangs, MB, any of the Japanese offerings, etc.

I think one risks upsetting the Balance of the Car quite easily if a comprehensive series of Mods are not planned out from the start. Unfortunately, most people do not do this and Mod in a Helter-Skelter fashion driven primarily by WOW factor and the present state of their checkbook. But whatever, they'll learn...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
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Old 01-27-2006, 11:22 PM   #4
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> Not so with the Boxster. Porsche did a fair job of maximizing the design on their own. There are relatively mild gains, for what to me at least, seems an exorbitant cost.

Blablabla. Is this your salesmanager talking ?

Porsches are just cars, just like others (sorry guys). My 3.2S puts on 252bhp which is 78bhp per liter which is nice but not very on the limit. Modern NA sportengines are expected to put out 100bhp or more per liter in a reliable manner.

Look under you car at the exhaust headers. I have never, ever, seen such crappy headers.

There is much to gain, however you will loose reliability (wasn't that perfect to start with) and pay premium dollars for intake, exhaust and remapping modifications only. After that you can do cams, throttle bodies, porting of the head, etc. ,etc., etc.

Don't get me wrong. I really _LOVE_ my S and find it a near perfect car and I wouldn't think about putting mods on it. I'm an originality freak and like the car just as it is.
(but don't say its tuned to the maximum engineering limit and can't be put any further. That is completely XXXXX)

Last edited by Brucelee; 01-28-2006 at 06:16 AM. Reason: Moderator discretion
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Old 01-28-2006, 12:32 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markk
>
(but don't say its tuned to the maximum engineering limit and can't be put any further. That is completely bull****************.)
What MNBoxster is not complete bs like you state. I do not know where you get your information from but you should reconsider what you said. MNBoxster knows more about Boxsters then 99.9% of the people who own them,so you should really respect whatever his input is.

You said most cars should put out 100hp per liter? Are the 8.3 liter Vipers supposed to have 830hp,but instead have 500hp?

If the headers on a Boxster are so crappy then why dont more people have problems with them?

You also say that there is much to gain from the stock. Not so true besides supercharging,alot of the aftermarket parts lose low end power with minimal high end gains.
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:27 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blinkwatt
What MNBoxster is not complete bs like you state. I do not know where you get your information from but you should reconsider what you said. MNBoxster knows more about Boxsters then 99.9% of the people who own them,so you should really respect whatever his input is.
I agree really. MNBoxster and some people in this board seems to know a lot about cars. Wise people should listen or at least respect to what wise people said

As far as what I can comprehend, Boxster is not a simple car where you can just add this and that because it will offset the balance easily. Of course, knowing that, people are free to do whatever to their own car and learn and have fun
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Old 01-28-2006, 01:53 AM   #7
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> Are the 8.3 liter Vipers supposed to have 830hp,but instead have 500hp?

Viper engine are not sportengines tuned for maximum power output either. They added cubic inches to get power AND torgue at the lower end of the rev scale.

With the proper money and engineering knowledge yes, a Viper engine would get to 830bhp, easily.

Look at Porsche GT3 and CGT engines, BMW ///M engines, Lamborgini engines, Ferrari engines and even the Honda V-tec engines which are all NA and put out more than 100bhp per liter. Those are, IMHO, sportscar engines which are really optimized and engineered near the limits with its design maximized within the parameters of being still a street/production car. Not at limit yet because they are still mass engines for street cars, but pretty much near the limit.

A Boxster engine is nowhere near its limits...

> Boxster is not a simple car where you can just add this and that because it will offset the balance easily.

I agree. Boxster is a great balanced car which Porsche did perfectly. Adding things will/can offset the balance. True. But that was not the case / argument. They did not maximize the design in all aspects, especially not the engine.

> If the headers on a Boxster are so crappy then why dont more people have problems with them?

All people do have problems with them in respect that they limit power output. Just search the net for some comparison between dansk headers and the OEM stuff. You'll be amazed.

Like said with the proper intake modifications, exhaust modifications and remapping the 3.2 S engine originally producing 252bhp can be put to about 280/290 bhp. Search the net, there are several around. Yes the cost for the work/parts is high related to the gain, I know. But these still are, from a non-cost but engineering view, simple modifications. There will be more to gain with more drastic mods like headporting, cams, etc.

And yes, I know that putting a (tuned) 3.4/3.6 996 engine is the better option cost wise.

My apologies for the rather "hard" response. I'm just debating the phrase that these cars a maximized in design / engineering. It just not true, especially for the engine design. They are great in balance, which is very important as well...


BTW: I own a BoxsterS, BMW e30 M3, a midly tuned Subaru Impreza GT Turbo and a Peugeot 206gti, two motorcycles and without being arrogant I do know a thing or two about car/engine technology. Besides hobby car technology, among other things, was part of my education as a car driver instructor in Holland.
(*c


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Old 01-28-2006, 02:14 AM   #8
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And as for the original question about sport throttle bodies. Yes, without other mods these will be worthless. Boxster engines tend to be in their factory/standard form EXHAUST restricted. So they is very little to gain from intake modification without freeing up the EXHAUST first.

If you already did proper EQ headers, de-kat, a proper sportsmuffler, high flow air intake THEN a larger sport throttle bodie together with a ECU remap could be benificial...

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Old 01-28-2006, 09:08 AM   #9
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@Markk,

First off, you took one sentence out of context from my post and used it as a basis to spout your own beliefs. That's OK, except that you continually misquoted me. What I said was - "Porsche did a fair job of maximizing the design on their own...".

Now to most people, this would read as "a pretty good, but not complete, job of maximizing the design..." Allowing that for you English is a 2nd Language, I'll give you that one, just make the correction.

If you want to speak Academically, then yes, it is possible to MOD any Internal Combustion Engine to great Performance. The necessary requirements are Time, Materials, Expertise, and Money. With these, it's possible to get 1,000 HP out of your Lawnmower Engine.

Now, while this may be possible, it is certainly not practical on any number of points.

You admit to the need for concern not to upset the Balance of the Car, but I'm not certain you understand what I mean by Balance.

It's not just Handling, although this plays a part. It is the power as well - there is such a thing as too much power on a car, maybe tough for you to comprehend, but there is. Then there's the reliability factor, which in fairness you did mention. But also, MPG, Weight, Heat Management, Accoustics, but also a financial limit, after which you are being unrealistic.

It costs roughly $200-$300 Per @ additional HP in the Boxster - hardly an insignificant point. Given the steep Depreciation Curve these cars already have, it doesn't take too many HP and you have a Car which has merely become a Folly. When all the while, for half the Money, you can buy the exact performance you're looking for right off the Showroom, right out of the Box with some other Marque or Model.

At some point, you've exceeded the design intention for the Car and should simply move into another Model. You don't take a Cambry and try to push 900HP out of it, although it is probably theoretically possible. At some point, you move on. This is more of what I meant by Maximizing the design.

The Boxster is a Good Car pretty much as it is. Any improvements are relatively slight and VERY expensive, not usually worth the effort. If you are that dissatisfied with it, you should move to another Model or Make which has more of what you're looking for rather than trying to tack-it-on to the Boxster.

Another point you missed was my statement about people taking an Ad Hoc approach to Modding their Car. They have $500 extra, so they look for a $500 Mod. It may be an Intake (which by itself does virtually nothing) or an Exhaust (again, very limited). Then they run out of Money or Desire and the Car is left incomplete, often worse than it was to begin with. My message was to look at what you want, BEFORE you begin Moddong the Car and then Budget and Proceed in a Logical sequence, not merely by what Parts you can afford today.

We can have a Hair-splitting Contest all weekend, but if you really are as knowledgeable and trained as you state, you must concede many of the things I say are true...PEACE!

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 01-28-2006 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:14 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by MNBoxster
The necessary requirements are Time, Materials, Expertise, and Money. With these, it's possible to get 1,000 HP out of your Lawnmower Engine.

Hey Jim, I am going to try this! Imagine how fast I could get my lawn done with that much power. More time to drive the Boxster on the weekends!
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Old 01-28-2006, 10:45 AM   #11
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... MNBoxster knows more about Boxsters then 99.9% of the people who own them,so you should really respect whatever his input is...

Thank you for your kind words. But, not to Diss anyone, but you don't need much Higher Education to make a living either Assembling Cars or Servicing them.

The most important thing for the DIYer is Confidence. These Cars are not Mysterious in any way. They may be more complex, but that's not insurmountable. You need Knowledge (which any number of Tech Manuals - Porsche, Bentley, etc. can provide you). A Basic Understanding of Cars in General, and a modest set of Good Tools. Armed with this, most R&R on a Boxster can be performed by anyone. Experience helps, but you can only gain this by doing. The major adavantage to Experience will be found in developing your Diagnostic Skills, but with OBDII and Code Readers, much of this is done for you as well.

In the case of DIY, the Car is already assembled by someone who knew how to do it. Take care when disassembling a System or Component and you'll learn how to reassemble it. Work slowly and purposely making sure you've not forgotten anything and do the job right the first time.

But, first, you need Confidence. This can be gained by first starting small. Work on the easy tasks, and once you feel more comfortable, move on to more complex ones. Your Confidence will increase with each completed task, such as the work you did on your MAF Sensor.


You said most cars should put out 100hp per liter? Are the 8.3 liter Vipers supposed to have 830hp,but instead have 500hp?

To be sure, HP/Ltr. is a Valid Metric, but maybe not the most important one when determining the Performance Potential of a Car. Maybe a more important one is the HP/Weight ratio.

In the case of the Boxster 2.7L, you're looking at 1:11.9 HP/lbs. This Compares very favorably to the Famed 550 Spyder, whose HP/weight ratio was 1:11.7 HP/lbs.

The reason this metric may be a better one to use is that it provides an alternative - Pumping up the HP, or... reducing the weight! Two ways of attacking the problem. To be sure, there are trade-offs. People may prefer to add HP instead of swapping Wheels, the Battery, Spare, etc., or losing the Stereo or other Creature Comforts. But, the alternative remains. And, you can do some of both and achieve the same end all the while preserving Reliability and Cash Flow


You also say that there is much to gain from the stock. Not so true besides supercharging,alot of the aftermarket parts lose low end power with minimal high end gains.

Very True. Power and Torque Curves often shift when Modding the Car and all too frequently, Gains in one part of the Curve are offset by Losses in another. Where's the sense in gaining 10HP at the Top End (where a Street Car is rarely driven), only to lose 10HP in the Mid-ranges (where you'll spend much of your time)? On Paper, it may Look Better, you can spout a lot of Auto Dribble to your Friends and Brag about your Automotive Jewelry, but you may actually have a poorer Performing Car with respect to how You drive it.
In the end, all-in-all, the Boxster is a nice little package pretty much as-is. If you're looking for more, you may find more satisfaction pursuing a Viper, C6, 997T T or the like...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 01-28-2006 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:33 AM   #12
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To second and add to what Jim said so well, there is also an issue of balance when it comes to WHERE this new added power develops. For many of us, adding power up the RPM scale is of little value. In normal, legal street driving, power and torque down low is much more appealing that sacrificing that power to make more at 6000 RPM.

To wit, the S2000 that I drove makes impressive power if you are willing to wring its neck all the time. To me, this kind of car is not appealing at all.

On the other hand, a C5 corvette or 911 has a nice fat power band lower down. Don't get me wrong, they whail up top too but you don't have to go there to appreciate the car.

Same for an Box S. I for one would not give this up. It would be like driving a VTEC engine, which to me, is not the point.

Good stuff!
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Old 01-28-2006, 11:09 PM   #13
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> ... you must concede many of the things I say are true...PEACE!
Peace always. Yes I do concede to your line of reasoning and yes I did react a bit strong language wise and yes I took one sentence outof it.

Maybe I read want I wanted to read. People, especially people owning nice cars like Boxster's, M3's, etc. most often argue that they are the best, engineered to the maximum limit, etc., etc. This belief is most often fed by sales man. I still think that is complete BS. They are still just mass production cars with tradeoffs made for the big public. If you know what you are doing, if you want to take the financial burden and if you always keep the balance, in all aspects, of the car at mind you can improve on those cars. Financially it is never wise, but then again you only live once.

A Porsche Boxster is IMHO a beautifully balanced car, in many aspects not only handling. If there is a thing which calls for improvement it is power output. The engine in a Boxster is not a very reliable thing and it is not a very efficient / highly tuned sportscar engine. There is, IMHO, room for improvement. Again, look at the (S) headers, this is were Porsche really took a compromise, maybe deliberately limitting power output to not get into 911 space. They did realised this themselves because the "new" 987S 280bhp engine does have proper headers and intake mods which plays a major (not all) part in the power difference. Another example is the absence of a proper mechanical Limited Slip Differential (LSD) for the car.

Modding a car can be very addictive and financially bad. I drive an Subaru Impreza GT Turbo and modded the engine output which is fairly easy given its a turbo charged engine. Then you start doing the crappy brakes, then the crappy handling, then the gearbox/diff setup, then the weakness in the body, etc., etc. ,etc. Eventually you find yourself at a moment that you could better have bough an Mits. EVO.


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