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Old 11-28-2005, 08:08 PM   #1
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Angry Rear main seal

Need advice on RMS leak 2000 Boxster S. It was replaced under warranty at 21,000 miles two years ago. It is blown again now at 42,000 miles. Dealer is unable to get Porsche to warranty the repair. Does it pay to whine to Porsche?
Cost of maintaining this car is high - wife calls it the "money pit". Love to drive it when it works!

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Old 11-28-2005, 10:18 PM   #2
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Just curious...

Im looking at buying a 2000 BS soon. Just curious, what else have you had to replace/fix on your S? I know about the RMS, top cables, airflow sensor and oxygen sensors going bad. Anything else worth noting?
Thanks in advance !

Vic
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Old 11-29-2005, 06:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklumb
Need advice on RMS leak 2000 Boxster S. It was replaced under warranty at 21,000 miles two years ago. It is blown again now at 42,000 miles. Dealer is unable to get Porsche to warranty the repair. Does it pay to whine to Porsche?
Cost of maintaining this car is high - wife calls it the "money pit". Love to drive it when it works!

It does not hurt to pursue this issue. If you can get the dealer on your side, you may get at least a partial comp on this issue.

Be nice, be fact-based, be persistent.

And good luck.

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Old 11-29-2005, 10:11 AM   #4
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Give them hell.

I did when I got RMS on a my newly purchased 3 year old BoxsterS at 30kkm and they sent me a bill.

A few days later I got a phone call that it would all be taken care off...


Mark.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:26 PM   #5
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RMS leak

Other problems I have experienced with this car. Failed ignition switch, right headlight adjuster broke ( had to replace assembly), two CV joint boots torn on seperate shafts.
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Old 11-30-2005, 12:01 PM   #6
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High maintenance costs and ********************ing about it from the wife are both prices you have to pay to drive a Porsche.
Smile sweetly and tell her it's cheaper than having a girlfriend on the side.
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Old 12-02-2005, 06:43 PM   #7
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Angry No Luck

My dealership was unable to offer any help in repairing the RMS leak. Talking to Porsche Customer Care was to no avail also. My next decision is to do it myself
(after installing a Modine in the garage), 14 degrees here tonight, or pay $600.00 - $800.00 to have it done.
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Old 12-02-2005, 08:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dklumb
Need advice on RMS leak 2000 Boxster S. It was replaced under warranty at 21,000 miles two years ago. It is blown again now at 42,000 miles. Dealer is unable to get Porsche to warranty the repair. Does it pay to whine to Porsche?
Cost of maintaining this car is high - wife calls it the "money pit". Love to drive it when it works!
I bought a 01 Box-car, soon after the RMS started to go bad. I did some rec and discovered it had been replaced less then 12k miles ago. I pitched a good ******************** I ended up paying about 385.00 for the whole job plus I got a Two year warranty on top of that. Scream loud, screem long.

Mike
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My other car was a 2001 Boxster
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Old 12-03-2005, 12:16 AM   #9
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> Smile sweetly and tell her it's cheaper than having a girlfriend on the side.

Woehahahaha, I'll have to remember that one :-)))))))))

Mark.
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Old 12-09-2005, 12:53 PM   #10
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RMS is 600.00 to 800.00 to repair? That doesnt seem too awful considering I was quoted $150.00 for an oil change.I will be changing my own oil by the way. I would even consider doing the RMS myself but Im a do it yourself kinda guy.
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:29 AM   #11
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Its amazing to me that there is no fix for the problem and RMS replacement is considered "maintenance". Perhaps its an engineering design to improve dealership service ops profitability.

I read on another site that replacing the Boxster RMS with the Cayenne RMS may be a good fix but I got the sense that this was still not clear. Does anyone know of this?
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Old 12-14-2005, 07:45 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by wild1poet2
Its amazing to me that there is no fix for the problem and RMS replacement is considered "maintenance". Perhaps its an engineering design to improve dealership service ops profitability.

I read on another site that replacing the Boxster RMS with the Cayenne RMS may be a good fix but I got the sense that this was still not clear. Does anyone know of this?
Hi,

The Jury is still out on the Cayenne RMS. This is because the issue is not the seal itself, but rather that the Blocks are cast without a subsequent machining to Center-Bore the Crank Opening. This results in somewhat varying tolerances, the extreme of which cause the crank to rub disproportionately on one side of the seal leading to it's premature failure.

To me, it's unconscionable that a company with the reputation Porsche has gained would go nearly a decade without fixing the issue. Instead they have chosen to take the Risk Management approach and apply Band-Aids on a Case-by-Case basis. Words cannot describe my disappointment with this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Boxster. But this single perrenial flaw would prevent me from Wholeheartedly recommending it to anyone, especially if buying a previously owned Boxster. There are just too many other Great Cars out there to risk buying into these kinds of troubles. I'm not even certain I would do it again... and I have a good RMS (Knock on Wood)...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 12-14-2005 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 08:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MNBoxster
To me, it's unconscionable that a company with the reputation Porsche has gained would go nearly a decade without fixing the issue. Instead they have chosen to take the Risk Management approach and apply Band-Aids on a Case-by-Case basis. Words cannot describe my disappointment with this situation.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Boxster. But this single perrenial flaw would prevent me from Wholeheartedly recommending it to anyone, especially if buying a previously owned Boxster. There are just too many other Great Cars out there to be buying into these kinds of troubles. I'm not even certain I would do it again... and I have a good RMS (Knock on Wood)...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99
Very well stated. I have the same mixed feelings and opinions on the ownership of my Boxster.
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Old 12-14-2005, 10:07 AM   #14
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thanks for the info..... you would think center boring or altering the casting process would be straightforward.

Let's hope the Cayenne RMS works.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:35 AM   #15
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RMS Ramblings

Just another thought. If this problem is of widespread and re-occurring nature I am also surprised there has not been some type of class action by owners to have Porsche extend warranty coverage on this repair.

This would explain the reports of some owners being accomodated with covered repairs and even new engines while others not(ie; complain vociferously and they'll concede to make you go away).

I've read that this is an engineering defect which would seem to be in violation of implied merchantability codes(caveat: I'm not an attorney).

Presumably this problem will continue over to the Cayman.

Anyone know what percent of the Boxster engines experience this problem? I've read its as high as 100%. This must be an exagerated estimate. I hope.
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Old 12-14-2005, 11:48 AM   #16
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Rear Seal Leak

yup, my 02 boxster just had the rear seal leak right before the warranty ended this past november 05...thank god.....but i don't like what i have read here about it happening again...kar only has 15miles....i'm so not forking out any money on another leak if it happens out of warranty...im screamin n yellin

ey
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Old 12-14-2005, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wild1poet2
thanks for the info..... you would think center boring or altering the casting process would be straightforward.

Let's hope the Cayenne RMS works.
Hi,

Well, it just isn't as straightforward as you may think. In traditional Casting, where post-cast Machining is performed, the Mold allows for the excess material which the Machining subsequently takes away.

Porsche's method (adopted from Audi), does not allow for this excess material, so simply machining the Block halves to provide for the Center-Boring won't work. They'd be looking at redesigning the molds and possibly the Block halves themselves to provide additional support where the Boring takes place. The metallurgy may even require some tweeking. This would be extremely costly and possibly unrecoverable from the Price Point and anticipated Unit Sales the Marketing Dept. has set for these Cars. Remember, this Market Niche is already overcrowded as it is with more new Two-Seat Drop Tops still being introduced. Unofficial Surveys (Porsche won't release any stats on RMS Failures) have pointed to about 20%-25% of all cars being affected. But, releasing this kind of info in an already overcrowded Market could kill the Model completely.

Block Casting is a very difficult thing. Years back GM, (the Buick Div. actually), decided to make an all-alloy 265 C.I.D. Smallblock V8. Their first attempts yielded a reject rate of more than 99% (less than 1 Block out of 100 Cast was usable). After 5 years, they managed to reduce the reject rate to 85%, yielding 15 usable Blocks for every 100 Cast. This was so potentially unprofitable that they sold the rights of the Engine to Rover, who reformulated the Metallurgy and re-engineered the Casting Process to achieve a reject rate of only 9%, producing 91 usable Blocks for every 100 Cast, and the venerable Rover V8 was born.

Also, if Porsche did reinvent the M96/M97 Block, it would be akin to admitting fault in the earlier design which could have recall cost implications (given the near 500,000 986/987 and 996/997 Cars sold) that would jeopardize the financial strength of the Company, something unlikely to be accepted by the Boardroom in Stuttgart.

No, despite all the Boxster's excellent qualities... and there are many of them, I can't help thinking that deep down there beats the Heart of a Lemon. Good Company PR, Past Reputation, and Near Fanatic Fan Loyalty (some of which I assume will speak in opposition here) have done much to disguise the fact...

Happy Motoring!... Jim'99

Last edited by MNBoxster; 12-14-2005 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 12-14-2005, 01:44 PM   #18
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Thanks MNBoxer for an excellent analysis. Gee, the 20 to 25% event rate actually sounds better than I was expecting from all the posts. I have to assume that they tested the prototypes and ran durability runs. The RMS on the prototypes must not have failed. Then they went into production and the flaw occurred there in the production process.

This problem must not be harming the PR and Marketing of the cars.
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Old 12-14-2005, 04:37 PM   #19
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Too bad Dr. Deming is no longer with us. Porsche could use his talents.

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Old 12-14-2005, 07:38 PM   #20
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Thanks guys for all the feedback. I am taking my Boxster in tomorrow for the seal repair. I understand that they will use a go / no-go guage to determine how off center the cases are. This shop claims they use some epoxy mixture to help the cause. I will let you know how it goes.

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