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Old 10-21-2012, 12:58 PM   #1
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Wiring Diagram for Rear Wing

Hello guys,

I am new here. I don't even own a Porsche but rather a Subaru.
I am a good customizer, specialized in Fiberglass works and so. I am trying to fit a 986 mechanism on my car in such a way it activates when braking. Can somebody help me out please with the OEM wiring diagram of the system?? Much obliged!



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Old 10-21-2012, 01:41 PM   #2
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Hi,
Do you understand that the rear wing is to create downforce rather than a air brake?
It would take a massive amount of work to complete and most likely offer 0 in terms of braking performance.
I am not trying to be negative, but its a lot of work and due to the Scooby bodyshape, it would need a huge spoiler to have a positive effect.
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:13 PM   #3
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Hi,
Do you understand that the rear wing is to create downforce rather than a air brake?
It would take a massive amount of work to complete and most likely offer 0 in terms of braking performance.
I am not trying to be negative, but its a lot of work and due to the Scooby bodyshape, it would need a huge spoiler to have a positive effect.
Your statement is a bit weird...

When you have an 800bhp car, what you need is massive brakes, a solid suspension and a perfectly designed/angled wing (rather than specifying massive or not...).

Since I have experienced the usefulness of my current wing, I am 2000% sure that using it as an air brake (linked to the braking pedal) will be perfect for my application...
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:19 PM   #4
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You could just toss a parachute out the back
Hahaha
H
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Old 10-21-2012, 02:42 PM   #5
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You could just toss a parachute out the back
Hahaha
H
Probably I should design a retractable chute hahahhaa

Its not a drag car tho...
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Old 10-21-2012, 04:21 PM   #6
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Spoiler wiring diagram attached. Hope this helps. Good luck.

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k522/thstone/Misc/spoiler.jpg
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Last edited by thstone; 10-21-2012 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #7
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Ok guys with the great assistance of Heiko and thstone, I was able to get the two relays needed for expansion and retraction. Also Heiko pointed out that there is a sensor that activates the wing at 75mph. Two questions here:

1- where is this sensor located (I might have misread the graphs)
2- whenever the mechanism activates, there should be a timer that cuts power to the motor to prevent it from constant rolling. Is it inbuilt within the motor assembly or separate somewhere?

Thanks for any input guys
SS
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:05 AM   #8
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If you look at the diagram, you can see that the activation switch is not connected directly to the relays. It connects to the ECU, and the ECU is operating the relays.
The spoiler will extract at 75 Mph, and will retract at 55. So the ECU is managing the spoiler behavior.
You can also use the switch to manually activate the spoiler, but it will not work when the car is moving. My guess it is there for service purposes
Usually, in modern electric window system, there is some sort of a knock sensor that can detect if the motor stopt turning.
My guess is the ECU is responsible for that as well.
Since you are not going to install a Porsche ECU in your Subaru, this is my suggestion to you.
Take a regular after market electric window switch, and connect it directly to the spoiler motor. You will be able to extract an retract the spoilr yourself. No harm will happen if you will hold the switch for couple of seconds more.
If you won't to have it extracting and retracting all the way with one touch, you can use an after market roll-up window module, that will be activated from the switch.
I don't think you will be able to control it based on speed like the original way, without using a module that can calculate speed, and count the delay time, before extracting or retracting.

If I'm already here...
In my car, the spoiler will not work based on speed, but will work with the switch, so I assume I have a faulty connection between the relays to the ECU.
I think the relays are OK, because I can activated in the service mode (when the car is not moving) but maybe the relay has multiple circuits.
This way or the other, fixing the spoiler is on the bottom of my to do list, but if someone has an idea, you are welcome to shoot.

Silver, if you need more info ( diagrams, module recommendation etc. ) let me know.

Last edited by Meir; 10-27-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:18 AM   #9
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Meir, thank you for the great explanation.

Let me elaborate further: I want to integrate the mechanism, the relays and a push button (click me) to make this happen.

The push button will be installed underneath the brake pedal in a way that it activates under hard braking (and not each time that I push the brakes). I will install it as precise as possible that the brake lever pushes the switch whenever it is pressed all the way down. Whenever I take my foot out, it retracts automatically.

As I suspected (and you confirmed), the ECU in the Boxster controls the operation of the motor and cuts power at a precise time delay (4-6 seconds...). But in your case, if there is a fault between your relays and ECU, that means your motor has no way of stopping once you push your manual switch. Otherwise, the ECU does not control the timer... and there is something we don't know here.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:28 AM   #10
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SilverSpear:
Your idea is sound, but I'm not sure it will extract far enough.
I guess it would all depend on your braking duration.
Too short of hard braking, it may not extract enough to make a difference..
The spoiler seems to have one speed.. not fast enough..
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Old 10-27-2012, 05:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpear View Post
Meir, thank you for the great explanation.

Let me elaborate further: I want to integrate the mechanism, the relays and a push button (click me) to make this happen.

The push button will be installed underneath the brake pedal in a way that it activates under hard braking (and not each time that I push the brakes). I will install it as precise as possible that the brake lever pushes the switch whenever it is pressed all the way down. Whenever I take my foot out, it retracts automatically.

As I suspected (and you confirmed), the ECU in the Boxster controls the operation of the motor and cuts power at a precise time delay (4-6 seconds...). But in your case, if there is a fault between your relays and ECU, that means your motor has no way of stopping once you push your manual switch. Otherwise, the ECU does not control the timer... and there is something we don't know here.
Hi silver.
for the first part of your post.
using this type of switch will not get you anywhere. it is probably the worst one you can use for this task. if you think doing it with a switch at least use something equivalent to that:

this is the safety switch for the clutch pedal of the boxster. there are other generic switches just like it, for less $ (i just don't know how its called in English).
the nice thing about this type of switch (on top of the fact it is very robust), is the ability to bend the lever, and get much accurate setting.
not only that, if you would like to activate the switch using the pedal, it will not break if the pedal has more travel after touching the switch. the switch lever will flex like a leaf spring, and will return to its initial position once released.
problem is, it will be activated every time you will press the brake to the set level.
if you want to do it the right way, i have an accelerometer sensor, that can detect deceleration, and can be configured in 0.5G increments. it also has internal timer to adjust the output length (to hold a relay).
just like Tony, i'm not sure if the spoiler will operate the way you want it. it extract really slow, and by the time it will be all the way out, you will be probably stopped already.
as for the second part of your post.
the switch that manually activate the spoiler, is not a one touch switch.
you have to press and hold it, until it complete its travel (both ways). you can even leave the spoiler half way open, if you want.
looking again at the diagram, i can see that on top of the two relays (that looks like generic 5 legs) there are 5 wires going to the spoiler motor as well (can you confirm ?).
so... there is another circuit on the motor itself. could be i have a faulty motor.
i'm sure ill be able to find the issue once ill dive in to it (this is the first time i even look at the diagram).
worst case i'll ask Tony to build me a circuit the connects to the VSS and activate the relays.

Last edited by Meir; 10-27-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:57 AM   #12
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just an update.
was looking in my Bentley book this morning.
the spoiler is controlled by the cluster module and not the ECU.
(was hard to see in the diagram posted by thstone)
my car is an 01, so the electrical system is deferment then other years (don't ask me why). maybe ill have a look at it today while hacking my LED lights.

Last edited by Meir; 10-28-2012 at 07:11 AM.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:37 AM   #13
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Hi silver

this is the safety switch for the clutch pedal of the boxster. there are other generic switches just like it, for less $ (i just don't know how its called in English).
the nice thing about this type of switch (on top of the fact it is very robust), is the ability to bend the lever, and get much accurate setting.
not only that, if you would like to activate the switch using the pedal, it will not break if the pedal has more travel after touching the switch. the switch lever will flex like a leaf spring, and will return to its initial position once released.
problem is, it will be activated every time you will press the brake to the set level.
if you want to do it the right way, i have an accelerometer sensor, that can detect deceleration, and can be configured in 0.5G increments. it also has internal timer to adjust the output length (to hold a relay).
just like Tony, i'm not sure if the spoiler will operate the way you want it. it extract really slow, and by the time it will be all the way out, you will be probably stopped already.
as for the second part of your post.
the switch that manually activate the spoiler, is not a one touch switch.
you have to press and hold it, until it complete its travel (both ways). you can even leave the spoiler half way open, if you want.
looking again at the diagram, i can see that on top of the two relays (that looks like generic 5 legs) there are 5 wires going to the spoiler motor as well (can you confirm ?). YES THERE ARE 5 PINS
so... there is another circuit on the motor itself. could be i have a faulty motor.
i'm sure ill be able to find the issue once ill dive in to it (this is the first time i even look at the diagram).
worst case i'll ask Tony to build me a circuit the connects to the VSS and activate the relays.
The switch you displayed is really interesting Meir.
I am currently in contact with an auto electrical guru. We are still discussing options.

Thinking out loud, providing a slightly higher and more stable voltage to the motor, do you guys think I can shave a second or so from its operating time? I need to see what is the maximum voltage tolerance of the Boxster motor...
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:41 AM   #14
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just an update.
was looking in my Bentley book this morning.
the spoiler is controlled by the cluster module and not the ECU.
Interesting... So now it is either there is a timer in the cluster module that when it reads 75mph, it orders the motor to expand. Another one kicks in when the speed is less than 50mph and the motor retracts.

Best way to do this, is to crack open the wing motor surrounding and see what it contains...
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpear View Post
Interesting... So now it is either there is a timer in the cluster module that when it reads 75mph, it orders the motor to expand. Another one kicks in when the speed is less than 50mph and the motor retracts.

Best way to do this, is to crack open the wing motor surrounding and see what it contains...
that's the plan
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSpear View Post
Your statement is a bit weird...

When you have an 800bhp car, what you need is massive brakes, a solid suspension and a perfectly designed/angled wing (rather than specifying massive or not...).

Since I have experienced the usefulness of my current wing, I am 2000% sure that using it as an air brake (linked to the braking pedal) will be perfect for my application...
Good luck old chap. IMO I think you are missing my point as I am referring to the Porsche spoiler, not a huge aftermarket contraption!
The std wing is aerodynamically designed for the Porsche Boxster shape so would not necessarily have the same performance on a Impreza shape body.
My many years in the aerospace industry have taught me this at least.

If you have bigger plans, crack on son......
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:12 AM   #17
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Good luck old chap. IMO I think you are missing my point as I am referring to the Porsche spoiler, not a huge aftermarket contraption!
The std wing is aerodynamically designed for the Porsche Boxster shape so would not necessarily have the same performance on a Impreza shape body.
My many years in the aerospace industry have taught me this at least.

If you have bigger plans, crack on son......
I am using the mechanism alone, without the Boxster spoiler.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #18
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update

this is unbelievable.
i took the spoiler apart, and found out that the extra wires going to the motor, are actually going to a switch, that seats on the rail.
there goes my "knock sensor" theory.
the switch basically detects the movement of the mechanistic, and send command to the clusters . very old school in my opinion.
could be the switch in my spoiler is defected, that's why it works only manually.
this is the switch (yellow arrow):


having a look at the way the mechanistic is build, i don't think there is a way to make it work faster. the motor spins a gear that spins a spiral cable, so you are loosing speed, but the motor gets the required torque to push and pull the spoiler.
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Old 10-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #19
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oooops...
the pic with the arrow:
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:06 PM   #20
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I was wondering about that too....

Does this switch sends the commands to the clusters or the opposite?

I say the clusters do to that switch since they detect the speed of the car and send the order to the mechanism to either expand or retract.
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