3 more IMS reports

[pothole]

The whole subject of IMS failure is quite interesting.

Over here in the UK, the upgrade is a lot less common / popular. I've been using UK based forums for the past two years and can only recall one report of a failure on a 986. I'm not sure how many users exactly there are on said forums, but it's got to total many hundreds.

It's very hard to really judge, and I'll probably learn the hard way, but I don't feel it's worth the expense on my 100k mile early 2.5 and its double-row bearing. Well, certainly not right now. If I'm feeling financially fit when the time comes for a new clutch, I might reconsider.

If I felt like these cars could be made rock solid with a new bearing, I'd probably be more keen, too. But I'm not convinced that's the case with all the other failure modes out there.

[RandallNeighbour]

This has probably been covered before, but I'm lazy. How would I know if my replaced 2.5 motor, put in the car in 2003/2004 has a single row or double row? It was a Porsche replacement motor if I'm not mistaken.

[Brad Roberts]

I have seen NO 2.5 failures. Doesn't mean it won't/cant happen, but I have seen none and I have been involved with the cars since 1999, racing/time trial/autoX since late 04. The 2.5 doesn't turn the RPM that the 2.7/3.2/3.4 turn, it doesn't see the same heat etc.

I have pulled apart a LOT (20+) blown 2.5's, a couple had questionable bearings, but none of them had failed completely.



B

[harryrcb]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

I have seen NO 2.5 failures. Doesn't mean it won't/cant happen, but I have seen none and I have been involved with the cars since 1999, racing/time trial/autoX since late 04. The 2.5 doesn't turn the RPM that the 2.7/3.2/3.4 turn, it doesn't see the same heat etc.

I have pulled apart a LOT (20+) blown 2.5's, a couple had questionable bearings, but none of them had failed completely.



B

Brad I have a 2.5 now that has jumped timing but I have not pulled the bearings out to see if that was the cause. I retimed the engine but one of the cylinders has low compression. comming out the bottom end that's why I did not bother with the IMS. Now, however, I will have to pull the bearing to see it that was the cause. Will let you guys now end of next week

[seningen]

Originally Posted by harryrcb

Brad I have a 2.5 now that has jumped timing but I have not pulled the bearings out to see if that was the cause. I retimed the engine but one of the cylinders has low compression. comming out the bottom end that's why I did not bother with the IMS. Now, however, I will have to pull the bearing to see it that was the cause. Will let you guys now end of next week

Be careful that its not the whole IMS gear shifting on the tube.

The early IMS tubes have this failure mechanism.

mike

[seningen]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

I have seen NO 2.5 failures. Doesn't mean it won't/cant happen, but I have seen none and I have been involved with the cars since 1999, racing/time trial/autoX since late 04. The 2.5 doesn't turn the RPM that the 2.7/3.2/3.4 turn, it doesn't see the same heat etc.

I have pulled apart a LOT (20+) blown 2.5's, a couple had questionable bearings, but none of them had failed completely.



B

I bought a 99 a few years back with a blown engine.

When i put the car on a lift -- the IMS bolt was sheared off and facing head down
sitting between the engine and tranny.

this was a 99 tip with 92K miles on it.

mike

[Brad Roberts]

How would I know if

without pulling the flywheel off, I know of no way to tell


Jake?

[RandallNeighbour]

Brad, this kinda sucks. I've been patiently waiting for my motor to blow so I could tell the wife "Oh well, I guess I gotta replace it... Might as well upgrade it to a 3.4"

You are not helping my strategy.

[fivepointnine]

I was one of those guys that was a naysayer lol...until I saw the bearing that came out of my car, now I am glad I replaced it!

[Series9]

I don't try to force an IMS upgrade on any of my customers, but the people who think it's a 2% issue are totally delusional.

I have a small shop, and I've seen three total failures in the last twelve months. Yes, failure meaning $20k of scrap metal.

I have a current customer that doesn't even want to discuss it. He says "That's hyped-up hooey".


OK. Good luck.

[landrovered]

So the real test for the IMS retrofit's efficacy is upon installing it can you then: lug the engine, drive the car very few miles a year, change the oil every 15 k miles and drive the car short distances in traffic with no ill effects. If the answer is no then all of this is hype you have merely swapped a part for a more expensive version.

[Ghostrider 310]

Land, Assuming the bearing is higher quality than OEM it doesn't seem like a fool's assumption to believe there would be some improvement in longevity. As for lugging the engine IMO that should be avoided as good driving practice, I would never wait 15K for oil either no matter what bearing is there. IMO, the real issue is this, if you have a manual transmission will a cheaper bearing last the same amount of time as the clutch disc? If it does, than why not toss a fresh one in with every clutch? In this scenario, only a tiptronic would benefit from a longer life bearing job.

[landrovered]

If you cannot hand the car to a Luddite and have them drive it without a long list of do's and don'ts then you have not solved the IMS problem, you are simply swapping parts. It is a fairly straightforward concept.

Some will kiss the arse of the IMS sellers and some will not. But in truth the ceramic bearings will meet the same fate as the factory bearings. It will just take longer. The problem is not fixed and therefore it is pish posh to think you are doing the lords work by swapping cheap bearings for pricey ones.

That is my point.

[BYprodriver]

Vehicles, like forums can not be made foolproof. On time & preventative maintenance usually pays off & I am confident the LN IMS bearing is the best it can be for the inherent weakness of the original design. Thankfully we have options.

[mikefocke]

But then you can say that about any part subject to friction. It will eventually wear and fail. I don't know of an engine in any car that is not subject to eventual mortality. When I look back to the cars I've owned over the last 52 years, the engines failed at a higher rate than that I perceive the M96 to be failing (on average).

[landrovered]

Yes, I am thankful that we have options as well. I have expressed my intention to use the Pelican IMS solution.

I am of the opinion (like Ghost) that the clutch parts list includes IMS as routine maintenance. An easy concept not worthy of all the hype.

The "dare to speak the truth" stuff is over the top for me, but Jake usually is over the top.

[landrovered]

In Atlanta Jim Ellis Porsche (the dealership) will install the any IMS you want and quite reasonably priced as well. So it does not HAVE to be an independent shop.

[bartocollector]

What are the range of prices charged for the bearing replacement. I know the LN eng. bearing cost is $600 plus.

[fivepointnine]

mine was $1900 including oil change and updated RMS

[Jaxonalden]

Was that at a dealership? With an OEM bearing?