x51 vs EBS & hard headed Germans - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

LAP1DOUG · 12-17-2011, 02:25 PM

In prepping my 986S for future track events, I was planning to do the X51 oil pan and Accusump strategy.

I ordered an X51 oil pan about a month ago from a dealer, and just found out today that the order was canceled by Porsche. According to the dealer, it seems the factory has discovered that people are putting these things on non X51 cars

- Imagine that.

The dealer is trying to put the order back through with a VIN proving that this is truly for a X51 engine, and hoping they will ship it this time.

But now I am wondering if the EBS racing oil pan I found in another thread is a better solution than the X51? Perhaps I should cancel my order and just go with the EBS.

ekam · 12-17-2011, 04:09 PM

Sounds like BS to me, call Suncoast or Sunset Porsche I'm sure they can get the X51 oil pan for you.

thstone · 12-18-2011, 07:16 AM

I looked at both the X51 and the EBS. I couldn't see any particular advantage to the X51 so I went with the readily available (and cheaper) EBS. Bought the EBS from Pelican Parts and installed in a couple of hrs - easy as cake. I hate dealing with my local Porsche dealer (they have made it clear that their business model is focused on selling new cars and performing warranty repairs).

Gilles · 12-18-2011, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone

I hate dealing with my local Porsche dealer (they have made it clear that their business model is focused on selling new cars and performing warranty repairs).

Thstone,
Perhaps you may want to try another dealer because I had been pleasantly surprised by McKenna's support and attitude, even if my car came from another dealer..

However, we are fortunate to have many independent shops in the area (OC/LA) that have access to OEM parts at much lower prices than the dealer offer, where are you located?

.

JFP in PA · 12-18-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekam

Sounds like BS to me, call Suncoast or Sunset Porsche I'm sure they can get the X51 oil pan for you.

I would not be surprised if the OP is correct. Porsche has a history of low production run parts and cars that they restrict parts availability on. They do this for two reasons; first, some of the items are so few and far between, they want to make sure that individuals with the factory equipped cars get priority; second, they try to restrict "grey market conversions" of non OEM cars. A perfect example is the front end parts for the older "slant nose" 930/935 cars; so many clones were showing up that Porsche required you document the provenance of the car before they would sell you replacement body panels.

MaxD · 12-19-2011, 09:25 PM

Just buy it from Brad. I did. **Brad Roberts Automotive Group** 996 X-51 Oil pan

Not sure how adding more oil volume really helps the issue.

thstone · 12-20-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gilles

Thstone,
Perhaps you may want to try another dealer because I had been pleasantly surprised by McKenna's support and attitude, even if my car came from another dealer..

However, we are fortunate to have many independent shops in the area (OC/LA) that have access to OEM parts at much lower prices than the dealer offer, where are you located?

.

Thanks, I have a great indy in WerksII in Burbank. They do excellent work!

JFP in PA · 12-20-2011, 01:04 PM

The X51 system (sump, additional scavanging pump, "Northwest Passage" return to the sump, etc.) was never about volume, it was about controlling where the oil is.

MaxD · 12-20-2011, 05:15 PM

Sorry, I just thought the EBS kit was just another spacer that allows you to dump in two or more additional quarts of oil but doesn't really solve the problem. I couldn't find it on the website so I guessed.

Oil at the pump pick-up under high Gs sure helps the engine live at the track, that why I bought a X51 pan. Accusump addition is on my to do list as well.

Didn't know that other parts were part of the X51 oiling system. Do any of them fit the 2.5l motor?

LAP1DOUG · 12-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thstone

I looked at both the X51 and the EBS. I couldn't see any particular advantage to the X51 so I went with the readily available (and cheaper) EBS. Bought the EBS from Pelican Parts and installed in a couple of hrs - easy as cake. I hate dealing with my local Porsche dealer (they have made it clear that their business model is focused on selling new cars and performing warranty repairs).

I took your advice and ordered the EBS baffle system from Pelican. I guess I need to try to remember to cancel my other order with the dealer for the X51 pan.

It is strange that the EBS baffle does not show up anywhere on the EBS Racing website - Pelican must have some kind of exclusive deal.

Thanks all.

ekam · 12-21-2011, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxD

Just buy it from Brad. I did. **Brad Roberts Automotive Group** 996 X-51 Oil pan

Not sure how adding more oil volume really helps the issue.

Adding more oil does not help the issue, but extending the oil pickup tube deeper into the pan along with a deep sump spacer is supposed to alleviate the problem.

JFP in PA · 12-21-2011, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaxD

Didn't know that other parts were part of the X51 oiling system. Do any of them fit the 2.5l motor?

They will fit any M96/97, but would require extensive modifications to fit them. The X51 was not designed to be a "post delivery" retrofit..........

stephen wilson · 12-21-2011, 11:18 AM

Has anyone installed a true dry sump system on a Boxster (or 911), or is the packaging just too difficult?

LAP1DOUG · 12-21-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Has anyone installed a true dry sump system on a Boxster (or 911), or is the packaging just too difficult?

Before I started looking at the X51 & Acusump bandaids I did a couple of searches on the internet for a dry sump kit, but could never find one.

I would think it should be possible - I used to race a Lola Sports 2000 car that used a dry-sump system fitted to a 2 liter Ford engine. If you can dry sump a Pinto engine, you should be able to dry sump a Boxster.

I'm not looking to make this an R&D project right now, but maybe someday...

stephen wilson · 12-22-2011, 09:34 AM

Yeah, I race a Formula Ford with a dry sump 1.6 Pinto engine.

LAP1DOUG · 12-22-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wilson

Yeah, I race a Formula Ford with a dry sump 1.6 Pinto engine.

Hey, I thought you guys were moving to Honda Fit engines?

You know the Boxster general layout always kind of reminds me of the old Crossle FF cars...

stephen wilson · 12-23-2011, 03:21 PM

The Fit engine is optional in FF, but still the minority at this point. I actually race Club FF, a '80 Van Dieman, I don't think the Fit is allowed at this point.

LAP1DOUG · 01-01-2012, 04:56 AM

So, to follow-up on this oil baffle question - I gave up on the Germans, and installed this all steel baffle system:

When I first pulled out the stock baffles, I was pretty impressed with the design, and wondered briefly if the EBS design was really an improvement, but then I test fitted the EBS baffle into the sump without the pan and saw that the way it seals to the side walls really increases the "still" center volume near the pump, the seals very effectively block sneakage from left to right sides, and the total window area into the center section is larger - all good things:

thstone · 01-01-2012, 01:54 PM

Congrat's on the upgrade!

Brad Roberts · 01-04-2012, 05:07 PM

I'm more than satisfied with the EBS solution

Heaven knows we have installed/sold 50+ X51 pans over the last 5 years!!

EBS' solution utilizes the tried and true steel flap door (Moroso oil pans have had these for 50+ years for drag racing) so the technology/idea is not new!!

Dry sump? Anyone?

I have the pan designed and already have a pump. Just no time to figure out HOW to run the pump. There is not a lot of room in front of the crank shaft to run a drive pulley... even after removing the ebrake cable guide!!

B