How many miles are on your IMS Retrofit?

[gwoodburn]

So now at just over 71000 mi on my 2003 Boxster S, the clutch is slipping pretty bad and it is time for me to replace it. While everything is taken apart, I am installing a new clutch kit, flywheel, RMS and I am seriously considering doing LN Engineering's IMS retrofit. The car is my daily driver and I plan on keeping it for a very long time. I have read a lot on the subject of IMS failures and the new retrofit kit and how it is a very good idea to get it done while replacing the clutch, but have not come across a whole lot about how many miles people have racked up so far after doing the procedure. I know that the ceramic hybrid bearing is of an extremely high quality and is supposed to last much longer than a standard steel bearing, but it is a relatively new procedure (about 2-3 years old now, I think) so I can't imagine there are a lot of boxsters with a ton of miles on the retrofit.

So for those of you that have made the plunge and had the procedure done, how many miles have you driven since the install?

Should I just bite the bullet and pay the extra money to have one installed?

Thanks!

[tonycarreon]

A lot of the labor cost for an IMS bearing replacement is getting to the bearing - why pay for the labor twice?

[gwoodburn]

Originally Posted by tonycarreon

A lot of the labor cost for an IMS bearing replacement is getting to the bearing - why pay for the labor twice?

Hey Tony, thank you for the quick response.

I am well aware of the effort that it takes to get to the bearing and remove it and I do not want to have to do it twice. That is part of the reason I am asking about how many miles people have on theirs. To get an idea of the real world longevity of the piece. If a bunch of people, for example, have 60k+ miles on it with no issues, then it sounds a lot more reasonable to pay the extra money for the higher end bearing as opposed to say 10k miles with no issues. Does that make sense? Some say that it is an unproven design and some say that I would be crazy not to do it. I got over 71000 miles on the stock bearing (which for all I know is still good) so I would hope that paying 30+ times the price for a higher end bearing would yield much greater mileage. So would like to know how far people have actually driven with the retrofit to help prove the concept to myself and a lot of other people that it is worth it to pay the extra money.

Also, I notice you are in Maryland. If you had one put in, where did you have it installed?

[tonycarreon]

I still have the original Porsche bearing, unless a previous owner did something. I bought the car a little over a year ago. But seeing as how the retrofit bearing has only been out for a short while I can't imagine there are many people with 60k miles on it.

FWIW, I have a tip and if I end up having to do an RMS fix or pulling the transmission out, I would certainly make that the time for and IMS bearing fix.

[Jake Raby]

While the procedure to fit this bearing into an assembled engine while in the car is still relatively new, the bearing and its application to the M96 is not. This bearing was first used in our IMS updates that have at least two more years of service than the retrofit procedure. NONE have failed.

A couple of months ago I had a rash of people that had reservations about the retrofit, because it hadn't been around for 10 years. In fact two of these people were members of their local Porsche drivers club and both were considering the procedure but weren't happy because we could not whisper things in their ears that they wanted to hear.

In a matter of 6 weeks both of those people suffered an IMS bearing failure, costing them about 16K each. After they experienced the failure one of them called me to apologize for his reservation and thanked Charles and I for developing the bearing and procedure.

What we have brought to the table is more than the bearing, its the ability to EASILY change the bearing that Porsche says is not serviceable at all. After the retrofit is carried out the first time it can be carried out much easier in the future with the same tools that were used the first time. Even if the life of the bearing was only 25K (just a wild number!) the cost of doing the swap would still be less than changing a timing belt on a Honda or Toyota.

I have personally pout 40K on my personal cars equipped with the retrofit bearing, that includes the very first bearing that was ever successfully retrofitted. We practice what we preach.

Anyone who has ever experienced silicon nitride ceramic composites in automotive, aerospace or medical device applications would understand why the material this bearing is comprised of is virtually indestructible. It is used in Shuttle components, turbine engines and even body armor.

Follow this link to the company of one of my clients who is scheduled to have his retrofit carried out in a couple of months.
www.amedicacorp.com
Make sure you view the company overview video on the home page.

As soon as he heard of the retrofit and read about the material it is comprised of, he immediately called to schedule a procedure. He develops and tests medical devices including artificial vertebrae and joints that are comprised of the exact same material that the retrofit bearing utilizes.

I first used silicon nitride in an automotive engine in 1999, then no one had heard of it. The parts I installed then are still in service today, they have completed 8 Baja 1000 races and still have not needed replacement-

[gwoodburn]

Thank you for responding Jake. I was hoping you would chime in!

I am very excited about doing the retrofit, but I only hope you understand where I am coming from. In theory, everything that I have read about it suggests that it there is no reason why it shouldn't last for 100k miles or more. It is explained very well on LN's site and by yourself and Charles on this and other sites. I guess I am more curious if anyone has been able to really get a lot of miles on these. So I guess that's why I was hoping you would respond. I figured you were probably the only one who has really put these to the test through your development with LN and its good to see that you have been since 1999. Makes me feel a lot better about paying the premium for the retrofit instead of swapping it for a steel bearing.

I guess If i don't like it, I could always use the material and have Amedica swap out my bones. I can be like Wolverine, but with ceramic instead of animantium. HA!!!!

[gwoodburn]

Originally Posted by sppmo

Just curious:

It's seems everytime Jake posts here it's an advertisment for his company or the LN engineering IMS bearing.

Does he have a financial investment in LN engineering?

As "Excellence" magazine stated in their October 2009 Tech column "IMS failures in Boxsters are rare".

Dude, seriously, take a hike. All you have ever done is bash everything Jake does and says. Who do you think you are and why are you here? Is your response even somewhat relevant to my original post? No, so stay on topic or get a life. You have nothing to contribute to this forum.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by sppmo

Just curious:

It's seems everytime Jake posts here it's an advertisment for his company or the LN engineering IMS bearing.

Does he have a financial investment in LN engineering?

As "Excellence" magazine stated in their October 2009 Tech column "IMS failures in Boxsters are rare".

So what if Jake has a financial stake? This is his business and his work supports our cars. Your argument is irrelevant. Jake presents his findings and if you don't believe it don't buy his products or services. I think you're in the minority here who see his posts as advertisements. They are jyst good information and people are asking him to quote them a price. We live in a capitalist society so live with the fact that someone is selling a product. Yes he makes money but he has shown he stands behind his products 100%.
Also just because a magazine says IMS failures are rare does not mean it doesn't happen. Failures have been documented over and over. We all play the odds of failure and the retrofit kit reduces the risk. Is it 100% failproof? Nothing is absolute but it helps and we are lucky to have an expert taking interest in our investment.

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by sppmo

Just curious:

It's seems everytime Jake posts here it's an advertisment for his company or the LN engineering IMS bearing.

Does he have a financial investment in LN engineering?

As "Excellence" magazine stated in their October 2009 Tech column "IMS failures in Boxsters are rare".

Nice for you to join us again.. Hope things are going well for you on "Earth". We still don't know who you are or where you are from, and you won't tell us after being asked several times. We'll have to assume you are a Troll, posting at a location under a bridge, from a laptop stealing internet from a nearby Motel 6..

I have worked with LN Engineering since before they were a company, just a couple of really hardcore students with some awesome capabilities and talent. We have worked together to "co-develop" dozens of products for Porsches, first air-cooled and then water-cooled. I have ZERO vested interest in LN Engineering, I have my own company that was founded in 1992 by me. LN and Charles have helped me on many occasions with the manufacturing of one off components for my engines and we work well together. We are able to couple engineering, manufacturing, practical application and evaluation all into one package.

Its pretty straight forward, either you recognize the IMS issue or you think we are full of crap. Either way, the fact is the decision is yours, to either take your chances or just drive on like nothing is wrong. To date I have refused to convince anyone to carry out the IMS retrofit, just state the facts, send them to the appropriate places online to gain information and let the decision be yours. After we talk to potential IMSR clients we don't call them back and pester them or try to frighten them into the bearing retrofit.. The decision is theirs. When I am asked "Do you think that I should do this bearing retrofit?" I simply respond with "do your research."

To date bearings are not in use that have been applied for 100K miles and it'll probably take another two years for the mileage points to get that high from retrofitted Porsches. We could lie to you and tell you we had already reached that point, but Charles and myself do not operate companies with those types of morals. We'd rather lose your business through your doubt and reservation as to lie to you just to squeeze a dollar from your wallet.

The bearings we have outfitted have a 100% effectiveness rating currently. Over time we will experience failures and we will learn from them just like we have everything else.

I am proud to have assisted with the development of the procedure to extract this bearing and make the procedure simple enough to be carried out by DIY enthusiast and Porsche shops that have zero M96 engine experience. Porsche said that couldn't be done and maintains that.

Be thankful that you have the choice of retrofitting your bearing, this time 18 months ago that wasn't a possibility.

Your Welcome.

YThe question the OP asked was how many miles are on your IMS bearing, since SPPMO doesn't have an IMS retrofitted car it makes me wonder why he even posted? To answer the question the OP asked, I have 40K on retrofitted cars that are currently my personal property.

Most IMSR purchasers aren't online, to get answers to this question you'd have to use a more effective tool than the web.

[JTP]

Originally Posted by gwoodburn

Also, I notice you are in Maryland. If you had one put in, where did you have it installed?

I had my car serviced at GT Performance in Edgewood and I'm very pleased with their service, price, and quality of work. Gennady is a really cool guy with good demeanor. When I have the cash for it, I will have them install the IMS retrofit if I have it done locally. GT is also listed in Charles Navarro's list of approved installers.

Ideally I will ship it to Jake to have the IMS done along with other mods he recommends. Like I said before, when I have the cash. I'm hoping the odds are in my favor til then.

Regardless of the new bearing's unproven reliability in the "real world", it is made of higher quality materials, has better access to lubrication, and is backed by Jake's outstanding reputation-both in the M96 and Type IV engines.

[gwoodburn]

Originally Posted by JTP

I had my car serviced at GT Performance in Edgewood and I'm very pleased with their service, price, and quality of work. Gennady is a really cool guy with good demeanor. When I have the cash for it, I will have them install the IMS retrofit if I have it done locally. GT is also listed in Charles Navarro's list of approved installers.

Ideally I will ship it to Jake to have the IMS done along with other mods he recommends. Like I said before, when I have the cash. I'm hoping the odds are in my favor til then.

Regardless of the new bearing's unproven reliability in the "real world", it is made of higher quality materials, has better access to lubrication, and is backed by Jake's outstanding reputation-both in the M96 and Type IV engines.

Yeah, ideally I would love to send my car down to Jake as well, but with it being my daily driver it might be kind of hard.

I have actually been in touch with Sloan at SSI Performance in Parkville/Towson. He is also on the list of recommended installers so I will probably take it to him. Edgewood is just a little too far from Owings Mills for me to justify the drive. Hell, with as bad as my clutch is slipping, I don't think ill make it!

[gwoodburn]

My IMSR is going in today!!! Woot!

I'm excited, but my savings account is crying.

[Cloudsurfer]

I've got a few thousand miles on mine. When I pulled the original factory bearing at 70k, it came out with no problems, and the bearing spun smoothly. I sent it off to Charles at LN, and he confirmed that it was in good shape with a little bit of wear.

Did I have to replace mine? Probably not, but to me, this is a cheap insurance type of job.

The LN bearing is clearly of superior quality and far better engineered than the O.E. bearing (particularly by moving the sealing o-ring to the flange). While nothing is guaranteed in life, I'm pretty certain that my car has a FAR smaller chance of suffering an IMS failure now. Could it still blow up via other a different failure? Of course. Will it eventually wear out and need replacement or rebuilding? Of course.

[Chris02BoxsterS]

I did it myself (single row) this past Winter at 22K miles and maybe have 2K on it since then, no issues and great peice of mind, did the clutch and CV boots at the same time. I don't remember sending my VIN to Charles at LN. I have the receipts but no plans on selling any time soon... The kit was very well done hgih quality parts. Thank You Jake, Charles and others for putting this together.

[andyv94]

Looking into buying a 2003 S TT that has 45,000 in Austin, TX.

I will have an inspection done before I purchase the car............question is, how much is it to do the retro fit? is there a place in Austin??


Thank you very much in advance.

[autodoctor911]

I am willing and able to start performing this operation if the need is there. I am still studying wether I am going to recommend such a remedy when there is no symptoms present. If your bearing has failed and the engine is savable, I would gladly do the procedure, or If you are really set on the Idea and no one is going to talk you out of it, we can certainly go ahead with it. As I have not done this procedure yet, yours would be the first, but that should be no reason to fear. I have over 15 years experience in the trade(european repair). Firsts like this come up many times, and I often loose my ass, time wise, but never have had any problems that were not overcome with some careful thought and patience. I have a boxster of my own and am contemplating the idea of a retrofit, or possibly another idea to increase the bearings service life. I work at Daves Ultimate Automotive on south congress. see us at davesua.com. contact me if you want to get together for an inspection or talk about the retro. my name is sean. autodoctor911@gmail.com 512-576-3598