How many miles are on your IMS Retrofit?

[gwoodburn]

My IMSR is going in today!!! Woot!

I'm excited, but my savings account is crying.

[Cloudsurfer]

I've got a few thousand miles on mine. When I pulled the original factory bearing at 70k, it came out with no problems, and the bearing spun smoothly. I sent it off to Charles at LN, and he confirmed that it was in good shape with a little bit of wear.

Did I have to replace mine? Probably not, but to me, this is a cheap insurance type of job.

The LN bearing is clearly of superior quality and far better engineered than the O.E. bearing (particularly by moving the sealing o-ring to the flange). While nothing is guaranteed in life, I'm pretty certain that my car has a FAR smaller chance of suffering an IMS failure now. Could it still blow up via other a different failure? Of course. Will it eventually wear out and need replacement or rebuilding? Of course.

[Chris02BoxsterS]

I did it myself (single row) this past Winter at 22K miles and maybe have 2K on it since then, no issues and great peice of mind, did the clutch and CV boots at the same time. I don't remember sending my VIN to Charles at LN. I have the receipts but no plans on selling any time soon... The kit was very well done hgih quality parts. Thank You Jake, Charles and others for putting this together.

[andyv94]

Looking into buying a 2003 S TT that has 45,000 in Austin, TX.

I will have an inspection done before I purchase the car............question is, how much is it to do the retro fit? is there a place in Austin??


Thank you very much in advance.

[autodoctor911]

I am willing and able to start performing this operation if the need is there. I am still studying wether I am going to recommend such a remedy when there is no symptoms present. If your bearing has failed and the engine is savable, I would gladly do the procedure, or If you are really set on the Idea and no one is going to talk you out of it, we can certainly go ahead with it. As I have not done this procedure yet, yours would be the first, but that should be no reason to fear. I have over 15 years experience in the trade(european repair). Firsts like this come up many times, and I often loose my ass, time wise, but never have had any problems that were not overcome with some careful thought and patience. I have a boxster of my own and am contemplating the idea of a retrofit, or possibly another idea to increase the bearings service life. I work at Daves Ultimate Automotive on south congress. see us at davesua.com. contact me if you want to get together for an inspection or talk about the retro. my name is sean. autodoctor911@gmail.com 512-576-3598

[andyv94]

Hey Sean, check your email..............if I buy the Boxster I think I would go ahead and have it retrofit for some piece of mind.

[Cloudsurfer]

Originally Posted by autodoctor911

I am willing and able to start performing this operation if the need is there. I am still studying wether I am going to recommend such a remedy when there is no symptoms present. If your bearing has failed and the engine is savable, I would gladly do the procedure, or If you are really set on the Idea and no one is going to talk you out of it, we can certainly go ahead with it. As I have not done this procedure yet, yours would be the first, but that should be no reason to fear. I have over 15 years experience in the trade(european repair). Firsts like this come up many times, and I often loose my ass, time wise, but never have had any problems that were not overcome with some careful thought and patience. I have a boxster of my own and am contemplating the idea of a retrofit, or possibly another idea to increase the bearings service life. I work at Daves Ultimate Automotive on south congress. see us at davesua.com. contact me if you want to get together for an inspection or talk about the retro. my name is sean. autodoctor911@gmail.com 512-576-3598

Logical thinking, except in the case of these things, when the bearing fails, it does so without any warning, typically, and in the majority of cases where it has failed, the engine is not savable short of a complete tear down and re-build (and even that's if you're lucky and don't wind up with a giant paperweight).

[JFP in PA]

"As I have not done this procedure yet..............."

Ummmmmm.....OK, but I think most would want someone who has "been there before......" as this procedure is pretty easy to screw up badly, as some have found out to their dismay………

[autodoctor911]

I think that everyone is making way too big a deal about this problem. bring the car in for a checkout. If the car checks out good, and it is priced right, buy it. when it is time to do a clutch I might consider doing this kind of procedure. right now, I am still up in the air about it. I am talking to some of the other porsche techs out there in the other shops, and am going to contact the guys doing these experimental retrofits and weigh the benefits and the costs/risks. I will post with my conclusions at a later date. maybe there is still a more elegant solution out there. I have a few ideas that I will be discussing with those that are in the know.

[autodoctor911]

I guess it comes down to opinions and speculation really. If it's going to make you feel better, do it. My only concern still, at this point is how long term is the fix. If Porsche is still having problems with this part after several redesigns, why should I expect a very small firm's R&D to have come up with a solution? just asking. I am still looking into it and will repost when I have gathered all the info.

[Jake Raby]

why should I expect a very small firm's R&D to have come up with a solution?

Small and DEDICATED instead of large and dysfunctional. My company and LN Engineering neither function from anything more than drive and dedication to the brand.

I've owned a Porsche since age 12, had my first paying customer for an aircooled engine at age 13 and people have been trusting me every since.

With previous engines the issues were more difficult to address as many more designs were necessary. The M96 "fix" was fairly simple, we just had to use a superior bearing and bearing material to overcome the inadequacies.

The common denominator with all the "Porsche" revisions has been the COST of the bearing, because the accountants run the company today, not the engineers. In mass production the ultimate fix is the one that reduces risks of failure while providing the level of security thats being targeted.

Thats not the case with the silicon nitride bearing, it cost about 300% more than a factory conventional bearing would to fit the application. Build a few hundred thousand cars and see how many millions of dollars that bearing would cost in lost revenue. Fact is they'd rather net more money and take more risks than make the engine bulletproof. To auto makers some percentage of failure is acceptable, to me anything less than 100% perfection is unsatisfactory. We currently have a 100% effectiveness rating with retrofits, none have failed, not even those that were installed incorrectly.

In 10 years the story will be told and I fully intend to make the naysayers eat their words.

[Lobo1186]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

In 10 years the story will be told and I fully intend to make the naysayers eat their words.

Chesty Puller (RIP) would be proud!

[BerneseMtnDog]

I also want to reiterate that a bearing on the way out will not let you know of its intent. Mine was replaced at 83k miles with not outward symptoms at all but upon examining the old bearing I could see where the original seal had failed allowing the bearing to fill with old crappy oil. I have no idea if and when it would fail but I'm glad I replaced it with the LN bearing as I understand this is an early stage of typical failure. I did the bearing replacement along with the clutch and flywheel myself and it was a straight forward job.

Steve

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Lobo1186

Chesty Puller (RIP) would be proud!

Yep, in those 10 years we'll probably experience some failures... I predict that higher mileage engines with the retrofit will begin to have other failures (like IMS tensioner paddle failure) that will get blamed on the IMS retrofit bearing and procedure.

This is already occurring with non retrofitted engines. The tensioner paddle snaps and the engine has ALL the symptoms of an IMSBF but the bearing is perfect upon teardown.

Crap will happen, we'll have to deal with it. Until then we'll enjoy a 100% effectiveness rating as long as we can.

[jmatta]

I'm putting some funds aside now for my retrofit, even though my '02 S has but 18k miles and no need for a clutch. I'd much rather have the update and spend a few dollars now, than risk my engine being toast and big bucks sometime down the road. I've listened to Jake and Charles' comments and have already installed a number of their recommended M96 updates, so this one makes the most sense to follow through on. I won't be one that hits the 100k mile mark any time in the near future, but I also won't see my car sitting on a flatbed with a dead engine.

[Jake Raby]

"We currently have a 100% effectiveness rating with retrofits, none have failed, not even those that were installed incorrectly."

This statement even refers to the DIY set of components we have supplied for others to install in the instances where instructions were not followed and complications existed. None of those have failed either.

What does a 100% effectiveness rating with retrofits mean? Than no engine that you have done a retrofit has failed?

Correct.

Or no engine has failed from the IMS cause?

This as well.

How many have you done?

All totaled between retrofits and updated engines, the number is very close to 70. This number doesn't include the numbers from bearing kits that we sold to other shops and etc for installation elsewhere.

Do you track the mileage of these cars?

Absolutely. All VINs are logged and crossed with IMSR bearing flange serial numbers as well as door jamb decals.

Do the owners of these cars who have had this procedure done check-in with you and report on the status of their engines

Yes, the majority stay in touch as we grow more close relationships with many after we complete the retrofits.

We do make follow up calls every so often with the owners of the cars. That reminds me that its time to make another round of those calls...

[autodoctor911]

I guess that ws the Info I was looking for. If it was just a matter of Porsche cutting costs, then this fix should suffice. 70 cars is a pretty good number of testers out there, but not enough to be a guarantee it won't eventually happen. I wish we could get some input from someone inside Porsche, maybe in the racing development area on this.

[Lobo1186]

Originally Posted by sppmo

"All totaled between retrofits and updated engines, the number is very close to 70. This number doesn't include the numbers from bearing kits that we sold to other shops and etc for installation elsewhere. "

Interesting Note: Total number of Boxsters sold from 1996-2005 is 180,521

http://www.autointell.com/sports_cars/porsche/business-figures/porsche-key-facts-1994-2005.xls

this is some interesting info. granted only half the story, what about the 911?

seems jake has plenty of business to keep his great work afloat!

I agree sppmo there must be a lot of owners in NEED of Jake's work. finally you and me can agree on something!

[Lobo1186]

Originally Posted by autodoctor911

I guess that ws the Info I was looking for. If it was just a matter of Porsche cutting costs, then this fix should suffice. 70 cars is a pretty good number of testers out there, but not enough to be a guarantee it won't eventually happen. I wish we could get some input from someone inside Porsche, maybe in the racing development area on this.

the racing sources while good they may be may prove to be not the best on this issue. because as I understand it, the IMS issue is not suffered by the higher end motors (IE gt2, gt3, rs etc)

also the application of a racing motor is so far away from the application of the daily driver it also makes it moot.

if daily driver motors were torn down every few uses also, i am sure they would not have the same issues.

correct me if I am wrong on where the IMS problem exists.

[Lobo1186]

Originally Posted by sppmo

"this is some interesting info. granted only half the story, what about the 911?

seems jake has plenty of business to keep his great work afloat!

I agree sppmo there must be a lot of owners in NEED of Jake's work. finally you and me can agree on something!"

Did you look at the spreadsheet? It contains all Porsche sales numbers.

Your thought process is amazing!

I apologize, I thought you had drawn out the pertinent information. my mistake. no need to try to be insulting i am just agreeing and thanking you for your information you gave.