SwayBar discussion: Anyone go from M030 to GT3/Tarett?

[chaudanova]

Let's talk swaybar setups. Has anyone gone from the M030 sways to a GT3 front with Tarett Engineering rear?

I'm currently on the M030 S Front, with M030 base rear setup, and while it has been a great mod, and much nicer than stock, I've gotten used to it. The continual mod bug has me curious how the boxsterspec setup would feel for a street car: GT3 front bar with Tarett rear bar.

Anyone personally go from the M030 to GT3/Tarett that can comment?

Thanks in advance!

[Topless]

The advantage to the M030 setup is that it is factory tuned to your car. The advantage of the GT3/Tarett combo is tuneability so you can use different setups for different tracks. Get your car really tied down for the smooth surface and banked roval at Fontana and loosen it up a bit for quick transitions or rougher track surfaces.

[Topless]

More on Boxsterspec sway bars:
http://www.boxsterspec.com/spec-boxster-talk-f2-swaybar-question-t14010.html

[chaudanova]

Topless, thank you for the link.

Aside from the adjustability factor with the GT3/Tarett setup, how would the GT3 front on full soft, and Tarett rear on full soft, on a daily driven car feel compared to the M030 setup?

Aside from understeer/oversteer differences, would the car feel flatter and have less body roll while cornering? Would the car ride noticably stiffer over rough roads?

[Topless]

Chaud,
I believe the GT3/Tarett sways will be a notch stiffer than your current setup even at full soft, both in terms of cornering stability and driver comfort. The big advantage is adjustability though. Every race track is different. If you can tune your car to make the most out of the two or three "money turns" that lead onto a straightaway it may be the difference between 1st and 5th place. On the street I am not sure they are worth the $1200 or so to add them along with the upgraded drop links you will need. In terms of raw lap times they may only be worth 2/10ths on a 2 min. lap.

I am not sure what your goals are though. If you want a mod that will transform your car for the same $$ I suggest you get a second set of wheels and comp tires. Angels will rain down from the heavens when you go canyon carving with your buddies on a set of R-comp tires. Just avoid standing water as they hydroplane easily. On the same 2 min. lap the R-comp tires may be worth 4-5 seconds. A lot more bang for the buck.

Good luck with your car whatever you choose.

[chaudanova]

Originally Posted by Topless

Chaud,
I believe the GT3/Tarett sways will be a notch stiffer than your current setup even at full soft, both in terms of cornering stability and driver comfort. The big advantage is adjustability though. Every race track is different. If you can tune your car to make the most out of the two or three "money turns" that lead onto a straightaway it may be the difference between 1st and 5th place. On the street I am not sure they are worth the $1200 or so to add them along with the upgraded drop links you will need. In terms of raw lap times they may only be worth 2/10ths on a 2 min. lap.

I am not sure what your goals are though. If you want a mod that will transform your car for the same $$ I suggest you get a second set of wheels and comp tires. Angels will rain down from the heavens when you go canyon carving with your buddies on a set of R-comp tires. Just avoid standing water as they hydroplane easily. On the same 2 min. lap the R-comp tires may be worth 4-5 seconds. A lot more bang for the buck.

Good luck with your car whatever you choose.

Topless, thank you for the advice. I don't know how I missed your response, and I guess I got sidetracked with my own thread lol.

Has anyone else experimented with other front bar alternatives between the OEM GT3 bar, GMG, TRG, TPC, etc?

And, are the Tarett droplinks still the current preferred setup, or has anyone else produced something better lately?

[Johnny Danger]

Have you considered the H&R sway bars for the boxster ? The the front is 26 mm and the rear is an adjustable 22 mm .

[Stroked & Blown]

Word on the boxster spec board is that the Tarret bar is preferred over the H&R bar b/c the H&R is TOO stiff.

I'd imagine you could dial in nice a GT3 front, H&R rear combo with the right f/r tire size selection.

[chaudanova]

Originally Posted by Johnny Danger

Have you considered the H&R sway bars for the boxster ? The the front is 26 mm and the rear is an adjustable 22 mm .

Yes, I've been trying to make a good decision between H&R and Tarett now. I took a look at the Eibach bar as well.

for the front, the popular choice seems to be the GT3 bar...

Rear, I'm still debating between H&R, Tarett, and Eibach. Still doing some research on their respective stiffness ratings, specs, and user feedback.

Does anyone know, in regards to the Tarett rear bar. I believe that is spec'd as a 19.1mm OD bar. I'm not sure the wall thickness spec on it... But in comparison to the Rear porsche M030 base bar, at 19.6mm OD, and 2.6mm thickness.... would this be pretty similar stiffness rating to the Tarett bar on full soft? (Seeing if I ran the GT3 front, with the M030 base rear... if that would be similar to running the GT3 front, Tarett rear at full soft.)

and as a side note, I'm running the typical 225/45/18 front, 265/35/18 staggered setup...

Suggestions/feedback?

[insite]

i run the GT3 up front w/ H&R in back. the H&R is STIFF. i wish it had a couple more settings; there are only two holes on each side.

i run the GT3 bar full soft up front for both street & track. i run the rear sway full soft on the street & i stiffen ONE SIDE by one hole for the track. the car is VERY neutral here w/ my setup. i've tried full stiff at the track and it was way too tail happy. not enough power to keep the rear end planted at this setting for me.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by insite

i run the GT3 up front w/ H&R in back. the H&R is STIFF. i wish it had a couple more settings; there are only two holes on each side.

i run the GT3 bar full soft up front for both street & track. i run the rear sway full soft on the street & i stiffen ONE SIDE by one hole for the track. the car is VERY neutral here w/ my setup.
i've tried full stiff at the track and it was way too tail happy. not enough power to keep the rear end planted at this setting for me.

Insite; by adjusting only one side, meaning that you now have three settings on the H&R bar.

However, doesn't this means that one side will be stiffer than the other (by having a longer arm)..? Does the car feels the same on the L and R turns?
.

[jaykay]

For those of you have adjustable rear sway(roll) bars how does the feel of the car change as you gradually stiffen the setting.......too much weight transfer to the outside wheel overloading the available traction? Correcting for this means more throttle once your in a slide?

[Johnny Danger]

Following the installation of a custom set of coilovers designed by 9FF (essentially a modified pss-9 kit to their specs), I added the H&R front and rear sways bars. After a little bit of back and forth testing, I chose to leave the rear sway at its stiffest setting. How this compares to other set-ups like the GT3 or ROW is difficult to know. There are many forum members who have far more experience with tracking their vehicle's than I do. I will say however, above and beyond the obvious difference the pss-9's made, the addition of the H&R sways was a vast improvement over the oem set-up.

[insite]

Originally Posted by Gilles

Insite; by adjusting only one side, meaning that you now have three settings on the H&R bar.

However, doesn't this means that one side will be stiffer than the other (by having a longer arm)..? Does the car feels the same on the L and R turns?
.

gilles -

the sway bars are not fixed at the center of the car, meaning that when you twist one side, it's countered by the other side. this means that the total torque on the bar = force * (lever arm 1 + lever arm 2) and is the same from side to side. there is no difference between a left turn or a right turn in this respect. just make sure if you do this that you have adjustable sway bar links so you can dial out any pre-load resulting from uneven arm lengths.

[insite]

Originally Posted by jaykay

For those of you have adjustable rear sway(roll) bars how does the feel of the car change as you gradually stiffen the setting.......too much weight transfer to the outside wheel overloading the available traction? Correcting for this means more throttle once your in a slide?

front vs. rear is very different. as you add bar up front, the handling sharpens a little & the car feels more stable in high speed corners. too much & it starts to plow; too little & it feels like it won't really turn in. i find a good setting for mine & pretty much leave it there.

now the rear, that's a different story for me. it makes ALL the difference. no rear bar makes the car understeer a lot; it feels wet noodley. add some rear bar though, and the car really starts to pivot. in fact, the biggest simple difference you can make to a box is to swap out the rear bar; it's undersized from the factory to promote understeer. the base M030 bar is lots of bang for the buck.

rear bar seems to make the car WANT too turn. too much & it can get a little darty, and ultimately the rear will step out too frequently in corners. adding throttle helps add weight to the rear & restore grip. 'loose is fast' because the remedy here is to add throttle rather than to lift. in my car, if i add too much sway, i get to the point where i'm full throttle, the rear continues to step out & i have to correct w/ steering input. if i had a tad more power or grip, i could probably go full stiff on my rear bar at the track. on slicks, it's no problem. it can get hard w/ a lot of rear bar to put the power down because of inside wheel spin. if you have a diff, this is a non-issue.

[Stroked & Blown]

This is a great discussion.
Thanks, insite, for all the...erm....insight.

Pricing wise, the H&R rear + djustable end links comes out about the same as the Tarett rear setup w/ endlinks included. The only benefit is that you could start with the stock endlinks and add adjustables later.

I think I am just going to bite the bullet and go for the Tarett. Better option at a similar price.

[insite]

Originally Posted by Stroked & Blown

This is a great discussion.
Thanks, insite, for all the...erm....insight.

Pricing wise, the H&R rear + djustable end links comes out about the same as the Tarett rear setup w/ endlinks included. The only benefit is that you could start with the stock endlinks and add adjustables later.

I think I am just going to bite the bullet and go for the Tarett. Better option at a similar price.

the tarret certainly provides a bit more flexability. if anyone needs a cheaper drop link solution, PM me.

[Stroked & Blown]

Is there a way to order the tarett bar without the endlinks? They don't list it separately on their site.

[Gilles]

Originally Posted by insite

gilles -

the sway bars are not fixed at the center of the car, meaning that when you twist one side, it's countered by the other side. this means that the total torque on the bar = force * (lever arm 1 + lever arm 2) and is the same from side to side. there is no difference between a left turn or a right turn in this respect. just make sure if you do this that you have adjustable sway bar links so you can dial out any pre-load resulting from uneven arm lengths.

Insite;
An interesting topic indeed.. unfortunately I don't have adjustable drop links, I am using the OEM links along with both of the H&R bars and the KW-V3 coilovers.

I like using the stiff setting on the rear bar to help you rotate the car quicker on a tight track, but on a longer track I use the softer rear setting to avoid wheel spin on the inside rear (no LSD either).

I am planning to eventually get the adjustable drop links AND also the adjustable toe links for the rear axle to have the proper toe settings, (the ones that also help you compensate for bump steer) however buying both the drop and toe links is kind of pricey.

Thereafter, a Guard clutch type LSD and a LWFW will follow, it's really easy, all I need is cash...
..ha!

[chaudanova]

Insite, thanks for the feedback and information...

Curious, have you played with the Tarett rear bar at all, or any feedback between that versus the H&R rear?

Also, regarding the different side settings. I definitely learned something today regarding the overall torque on the bars as you discussed. Theoretically, assuming a bar had an even split spread between settings, for example on a 5-setting bar..would running the L/R sides on a middle setting then be the same overall as running one side on full soft, and one side on full stiff? Just curious about the science behind it all.