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Old 05-17-2010, 09:30 AM   #1
Pat
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Dual-use pad compound preferrences

I just picked up my first Boxster. It will need new rotors and pads soon, and I'm trying to figure out which pads I should go with. The car is my daily driver and will see several track days every year. Ideally I would buy pads that are suitable for the street and track, although realize this my not be the fastest track setup. The car will have high-performance street tires on it and OEM suspension. What pads should I be considering? I've used Pagid Sport Blues in the past with good success, although think I need something with better fade resistance. I've also used Ferodo DS2500s which hold up to heat better, but am still not sure that compound will resist heat well enough for track usage. Am I just out of my mind thinking I can use one pad for both purposes? I realize there are compromises to be made.
I'm particularly interested in Hawk pads, as I get a significant discount on those. Which compound should I look for? Any words of wisdom are greatly appreciated.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:07 PM   #2
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You're asking which is the best compromise. But, why do you want to compromise on your brakes?

Buy a set for track and a set for street.

It takes about 1 hr. (or less) to swap the pads, and the Track pads will have ample time to bed-in on the way to the track. Plus, it gives you the opportunity to inspect everything and make sure the wheels are accurately torqued - a good idea when running high speed.

Using too agressive a pad on the street will cause stopping performance to suffer until the pads are well heated and raise the likelyhood of squeal. They will also eat through your rotors much more quickly just for the sake of a few annual tracks days.

Cheers!
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil bastard
You're asking which is the best compromise. But, why do you want to compromise on your brakes?
Cheers!
To save time and money.
As this is my first sports car, I am eager to learn about this sort of thing. I do, however, have extensive experience with my previous car, an Audi A4. That had more power then the Boxster, WAY more torque and weighed 300 pounds more. I also had r-comps on it, all of which added up to a greater strain on brakes that what the Boxster has. I spent many happy track days with DS2500s and left them on year-round. My experience tells me I can do the same with the Boxster.
That said, I AM a Boxster nOOb, so I figured I would ask here. Of course, one can always get better fade resistance with more aggressive pads, but if you're not boiling fluid or getting fade, what good does it do?
In case you can't tell just yet, I enjoy playing devil's advocate. I hope it doesn't sound like I think I have it all figured out based on my hp/tq/r-comp statements. I'm just trying to provide as much info to the forum as possible in an effort to find the best answer. I'm 100% open to hearing all thoughts.
For the record, I am leaning towards two sets of pads, but think there is at least a chance of getting away with one good set, provided it has just the right characteristics.
Thanks for the response, Lil bastard. I've enjoyed reading your posts in the past and look forward to what you and the others have to say after reading this.
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Old 05-18-2010, 11:12 AM   #4
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Thanks Pat,

Not to diss the Audi, but Porsches are known for their brakes and the Boxster (base or 'S') has some of the shortest 60-0 distances in all of cardom.

But, they're expensive as well which is why I'm not a fan of running agressive pads on the street to accomodate a couple track days. The wear to the rotors the other 363 days will exceed the cost of a 2nd, dedicated set of track pads.

I cannot accept 'saving time' on a track car. IMHO, a car should be prepped for the track, both to maximize enjoyment and safety. It takes me about 90 min. to prep mine which I honestly don't think is too stiff a time penalty considering the penalty, both in treasure and blood, somtimes imposed on a driver with an ill-prepared car.

When the proverbial sun sets, it's your car and your money. If you think it's a wise course, stick with it.

Cheers!
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Old 05-18-2010, 01:56 PM   #5
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You can get the OEM sport pads if you have a S.

http://www.****************************************************.com/product/99635198000AND99635298000.html?Category_Code=986bo xsters

997GT3 Brake Ducts are also a cheap upgrade for better brake cooling. You can also get 2-piece rotors from GiroDisc or Performance Friction as well that has very little(if any) negative effect on the street.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:09 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekam
You can get the OEM sport pads if you have a S.

http://www.****************************************************.com/product/99635198000AND99635298000.html?Category_Code=986bo xsters

997GT3 Brake Ducts are also a cheap upgrade for better brake cooling. You can also get 2-piece rotors from GiroDisc or Performance Friction as well that has very little(if any) negative effect on the street.
Thanks, ekam. Yes, I do have an S model.
The site says, "Not recommended for street use." I wonder what compound it is.
When my rotors are ready to be replaced I plan on going with the PF two-piece rotors.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:40 PM   #7
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I spoke to suncoast and they said plenty of guys use them for the street. It's not as agressive as most of the aftermarket pads while it has slightly higher operating temp than stock pads.
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Old 05-19-2010, 03:01 AM   #8
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Lil,
What prep. do you perform for a track day? I'd like to do a DE soon in my '06, and plan on just changing pads. How much tire ( PS2 ) will get chewed up in one weekend? I race a Formula Ford with SCCA, but this will be my first outing with a street car.
Thanks,
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Old 05-19-2010, 06:28 AM   #9
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Dual use pad? You can try Pagid yellows. I run them on the front all the time. It's an endurance pad so it lasts a long time and can really take the heat without being too aggressive on the rotors. They are a bit precious though at $225 per axle. The recommendation from the website is that they need some heat in them for full stopping power so on some cars they may not be suitable for the street. I have never noticed this in the Boxster even on a stone cold morning, but I live in Calif.
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Old 05-19-2010, 02:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen wilson
Lil,
What prep. do you perform for a track day? I'd like to do a DE soon in my '06, and plan on just changing pads. How much tire ( PS2 ) will get chewed up in one weekend? I race a Formula Ford with SCCA, but this will be my first outing with a street car.
Thanks,
Steve
Cool, I used to race FF also! Love those cars!

Well, I usually have compound Rs on other wheels, so those get swapped which makes sure my lug bolts are properly torqued. I swap pads, If more than 6 mos., I swap brake fluid - Track days go downhill real fast if you start having fade or boiling issues, if less than 6 mos., I just top it all up.

Top off all fluids, make sure battery holdown and terminals are tight, remove front cover and inspect drive belt, pulleys, idlers, etc. Clean radiators from the front with compressed air or vacuum. Remove all unecessary stuff from the car, especially the frunk/trunk. Clean all glass. I also remove the storage box to eliminate any possible rattling.

I can get all this done in 90 min. if I don't dog it.

Cheers!
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Old 05-19-2010, 05:06 PM   #11
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Thanks, the brakes are my primary worry. I'm used to the Ford, where you can hammer on them all weekend without having to worry about fade, or using up the pads. How hard can you use the breaks for a full session, assuming alternate pad compounds, 80%? Hard for a few laps, then some cool-down laps?

I'm racing in Club FF with a 1980 Van Dieman, but I destroyed the engine when the crankshaft failed, so it looks like I'll be sitting on the side-lines for a while.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:53 PM   #12
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check these out

KFP P42A 3 Gold

a very good dual purpose pad--not loud on the street and it took the heat at Mid-OH.

http://www.pic-yer-fric.com/PadSelector/PadSelector.asp?VehicleMfg=Porsche&Model=Boxter%20S&Year=2006
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:14 PM   #13
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I recommend having your new rotors cyrogenicly treated (frozen) to minimize wear & I run the Hawk HPS year round & never experienced fade from 100mph on the downhill straight @ Streets of Willow. The Boxster S brakes are as close to overkill as any car I can think of. I do tend to baby my brakes on anything I drive thou so your mileage may vary.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:24 PM   #14
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For me the dual use pad is EBCs for daily driving and Pagid Yellows for the track

I do not think there is a true happy medium for a pad that is good in both applications.

Therefore it is best to change out pads for track days. The benefits far out-way the negatives of having to trade out pads

Happy motoring!
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Old 05-25-2010, 06:34 AM   #15
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FWIW, I ordered some Hawk HT10s for track-specific pads.
Someone mentioned Hawk HPS. I've driven those before in others' cars and I prefer stock pads. At the time I was using Pagid Blues and the HPSs were a joke compared to the blues in terms of performance.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:43 AM   #16
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I was doing at DE this weekend at a track that is notoriously hard on brakes and pads. I usually use pagid yellow RS19 on the front and rear. I had about 40% left on the front pads before the day started but by the end of the day the front pads were toast. Since I did not have a replacement pair of yellows for the front I had to make an emergency trip the dealer and picked up a pair of the "Sport" pads.

On day two I ran the Sport pads up front with the yellows in the rear. To my surprise the was very little difference in performance with only the slightest drop off in stopping distance and I never experienced any brake fade. I will also add that the outside temperature was a sunny 98 and about 120 on the track

While I was not using the Sport pads all the way around, I was impressed with the performance and I would recommend them as a good dual use pad for both street and track. But like other posts have stated, if you are going to track your car, it is best to use a dedicated track pad. It is well worth the 30 minutes, a couple of times a year, it takes to change out your pads.

Just my $.02
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