read this and be warned about your motor

[mptoledo]

actually I would love mine to look like Trigem's a few posts north of here. I have been looking for the perfect spoiler/whale tail for my Box. His aero kit look is spectacular.

[TriGem2k]

Thanks mptoledo, its the factory Aero Kit II that is on my car minus the large wing that goes on the rear trunk lid. I also upgraded to the 2003-2004 rear bumper and deleted the rear bumperettes.

[spine911]

Originally Posted by mptoledo

"Sludge formation begins when the chemically suspended particles of contaminants begin to settle out of the oil. It's a fairly daunting task for engine oil to suspend all the contaminants thrown at it, and any engine oil can do this successfully to a point. Pennzoil, and some other quality motor oils, are able to perform this task more effectively and for longer periods of time. But eventually, if the oil is not changed often enough, a "breaking point" will be reached. This breaking point is either when there are too many contaminants to handle or when the oil's chemical defenses are weakened, and it is caused by two main things: excessive accumulation of contaminants in the oil and chemical changes in the makeup of the oil itself (depletion of the additives and oxidation).

"As more particles are suspended, less of the additives are available to do their job. Knowing this makes it easy to see why too much time between oil changes can be one cause of the oil reaching its "breaking point"."
http://yotarepair.com/sludge%20article.html

I totally agree with the above....

IMO, the solution is an easy one....I would (and i always do-regardless of whatever car i have, and oil i use) change my oil at closer intervals rather than sticking to the dealer recommended oil change interval. This way i know that there are LESS contaminants, and lesser chance of sludge formation.

Dino oils have a recommended oil change interval of 3k miles (which was the common accepted "rule" for decades)....With the advent of better Synth oils the "average" oil change interval is around 10k miles ......I personally change Synth oils NO MORE than 7k miles this way i know that i am always below the recommended interval.

BTW, engine design could, and can also contribute to sludge formation (crankcase breathing design, etc....etc).

[mptoledo]

Originally Posted by spine911

I totally agree with the above....
IMO, the solution is an easy one....I would (and i always do-regardless of whatever car i have, and oil i use) change my oil at closer intervals rather than sticking to the dealer recommended oil change interval. This way i know that there are LESS contaminants, and lesser chance of sludge formation.
Dino oils have a recommended oil change interval of 3k miles (which was the common accepted "rule" for decades)....With the advent of better Synth oils the "average" oil change interval is around 10k miles ......I personally change Synth oils NO MORE than 7k miles this way i know that i am always below the recommended interval.
BTW, engine design could, and can also contribute to sludge formation (crankcase breathing design, etc....etc).

Don't forget about the air filter. I almost did. I never thought that would help until I started doing some research.

[Jake Raby]

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

After talking with you on the phone over the weekend, I took the other cam cover, assemblies, etc. out to send you all the lifters. On my 70K motor, 21 out of 24 lifters were completely locked up. But it only gets worse. If you remember, on the drivers side, the intake cam was off one tooth. That is the side that the Durametric said had the cam angle off.

But looking at the passenger side, the exhaust cam was off two teeth!
Now I bought this car two years ago (used), and when I took this passenger side cam cover off, I noticed that the plugs, etc. had clear "goop" used as a sealing mechanism. So for some reason or another this cover had been off before.

The solenoid pads were just as worn as the other side, I don't know yet if that solenoid works properly.

But it continues to get worse...

Since I took the headers off (the Delubozparts headers - hopefully your testing finds they are worth it) to get the covers off without dropping the motor, I looked up from under the car into the exhaust ports of the head. Shrapnel is stuck in one of the valve openings. $&%@!&

Time to take off the head (which is surprisingly easy without lowering the motor). Head looks to be in ok shape, nothing that can't be machined.

Finally, take the head off and see a bent intake valve, and a cylinder full of debris. The piston is in tiny pieces, the connecting rod is in pieces and looks like it was hit with torch (discolored), and the cylinder sleeve is very scored (but surprisingly not chipped viably)

Here is a pic of his connecting rod...

All he thought he had was a bad vario cam chain tensioner wear pad...

This is a 70K mile engine.

[timothy]

Ouch Jake. Wonder what is going on inside my 89k 2.7L?! Or perhaps I'm better off not knowing and just enjoy the ride until that fateful day it goes boom.

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

All he thought he had was a bad vario cam chain tensioner wear pad...

This is a 70K mile engine.

Was his engine still actually running when he went into it?
I can't believe that engine was still running, and he thought he had just a minor issue.

No way.

BC.

[Adam]

Why does the crank end of the rod look like it got torched or really hot?

[blinkwatt]

Man....people should just calm down....I bet if this thread wasn't started people would drive their M96 engines for 100k+ miles with only the worry of IMS failure....now were going to see lifter threads for years now....

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted by blinkwatt

Man....people should just calm down....I bet if this thread wasn't started people would drive their M96 engines for 100k+ miles with only the worry of IMS failure....now were going to see lifter threads for years now....

Why shouldn't we have a conversation about our engines?
Isn't that exactly what these forums are for?

Also, if an engine with 86k miles on it, like my '98 2.5 does, has 20 bad lifters in it (just for speculation), and I were to replace all the bad lifters in the engine, it would then allow the camshafts to properly transmit the proper amount of lift to the valves.

That would mean that I might have restored 10 hp (another figure that is purely speculative) back to the engine just by spending say $300 on parts.

So why wouldn't I want to know about a procedure to inspect my valve lifters if it allows me to work on my car, and restore a bit of extra power, that would then be put to full use the next time I go to the track, and power my way around HPR?

What exactly do you have against discussions about engine repairs?

BC.

[Brucelee]

Frankly, this is one of the more interesting threads I can recall having. We rarely get a glimpse into the bowels of our engines.

Good or bad, the topic is quite intriquing.

[rob76turbo]

Rich, I am with you and bladecutter. This way we can make (hopefully) informed decisions regarding the motor and what we want to do with it. I for one tend to turn my own wrenches and have performed pretty major surgery on my old 930, 944T and 968. So swapping out lifters, chains and pads does not scare me, I just know that the car will be up on jack stands / lift for a while. I plan to replace the IMS / RMS when the car needs a new clutch (which will probably be in the 10K mile range for replacement) and of course all the other "while you are in there" things too. Now we just need to add the lifter / chain / pad to that list.

I for one would appreciate a good DIY write up on the procedure as well as a good source for parts.

Jake, you mentioned one brand (Febi if I remember correctly) or yours? I will be checking yours and LN to see if those parts are now available.

Thanks everyone for chipping in on this VERY interesting thread.

[Bladecutter]

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

Hey Jake,

Do you think you can post up pictures of a crapped out valve lifter vs a new/good one?

BC.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by Bladecutter

Hey Jake,

Do you think you can post up pictures of a crapped out valve lifter vs a new/good one?

BC.

To what end? There isn't much to see as the problem is internal to the lifter.................

[Paul]

Interesting discussion. In most applications a collapsed hydraulic lifter makes enough noise that's it's impossible not to notice it. I'm puzzled when I read that 20 could fail without making a lot of loud rattling noises.

[Brucelee]

Originally Posted by Paul

Interesting discussion. In most applications a collapsed hydraulic lifter makes enough noise that's it's impossible not to notice it. I'm puzzled when I read that 20 could fail without making a lot of loud rattling noises.

I was thinking about this. If you take any Boxster that I have owned and sit it next to say, any Lexus. Then, listen to the cars as they idle. To my ear, the Box engine will alway sound like you can hear the lifters clacking away. The Lexus sounds like an electric motor mostly, whisper quiet.

It COULD be that this clacking noise is the result of bad lifters in most cases.

Just a thought?

[JFP in PA]

First of all, the lifters get “stuck”, like in one position, but not necessarily in the collapsed position. So don’t assume that noise is the result of the lifters as it often is not. Noise also comes from other sources, such as the injectors which in these engines are also particularly noisy, they produce a rather audible “tick” each time they squirt fuel, so they also add to the confusion. Secondly, most of the so-called “start-up clatter” in the M96 after it has sat for a bit is not the lifters, it is the hydraulic chain tensioners, and this can be “fixed” by any owner that want to address it, very simply as well…………

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by Paul

Interesting discussion. In most applications a collapsed hydraulic lifter makes enough noise that's it's impossible not to notice it. I'm puzzled when I read that 20 could fail without making a lot of loud rattling noises.

The lifters usually do not make noise when they are only collapsed.. They have to come pretty much apart before they make enough noise for an untrained ear to notice.

My Dad is in the Hospital awaiting Surgery.. I'll post more on this next week after he is home recovering.

Yes we probably will be having lifter discussions here for many moons to come.. I continue to find serious issues with the engines, one of which we recently found that blew my mind.. (another piece of plastic!)

[RandallNeighbour]

Jake, I'll be praying for your dad's surgery. BTW, I tried to PM you but your mailbox is full.

[Brucelee]

Best wishes to your Dad, Jake.