read this and be warned about your motor - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

jhandy · 08-05-2009, 05:54 PM

My car is a 2002 S and I have never tracked it, I drive it hard but not more than anyone else.
I have had 3 RMS repaired at the dealer prior to 30,000k miles.

Nothing else has ever been wrong with the motor. I change the oil with 0W40 mobil1 every 5000 miles like clock work. I currently have 65000 miles on the car.

My extended warrenty will expire at 70K so I loaded my car on a transport and sent it to Jake Raby to have the IMS taken care of before I had problems. Aside from a little power loss the car ran good.

Jake opened the motor and found ALL but two of the lifters stuck. The chain tentioners where badly worn and one had already broken a little. Best of all the IMS bering was very worn and close to failure.

Everything was fixed and I should have the car back soon after a few more minor repairs are done. So to all of those guys who say that IMS and Tentioners dont really go out that often, I say get an extended warrenty and send your car to Raby before it dies.
James

RandallNeighbour · 08-05-2009, 06:19 PM

How could one know their motor is about to crater like yours without tearing it down?

jhandy · 08-05-2009, 06:34 PM

He will have to fill in the details, but what he did was to get a stethoscope and listened to a running IMS bering and also He said that the lifter made a clicking noise while starting the car for a mirco second and he said that the tentioners are always crap after about 60K.

I sent it to him because he is the king of these things, and just like a doctor, if you know what you are hearing, you can diagnose without opening the motor.

The IMS can be done for @700$ even if you did not have coverage of a warrenty.
All these guys spending 1000sK on upgrades and there is a service that can save 25000K by changing a bering. No brainer.

The motor does not have to be out of the car, just take off the valve covers to do the lifters and tentioners

Anyway, I got lucky i guess. The car is going to the dyno tomorrow, I hope to post results.
James

jhandy · 08-05-2009, 06:39 PM

When i say loss of power i mean just a slightly less power than say 5 yrs ago. It still dynoed at a little less than expected prior to repairs.
I would have never guessed that all of that stuff was wrong.

cost to ship was 500$ each way, As for Jakes prices, you should ask him, as I am sure every car is different.

I expect the warrenty company to cover it anyway, so I may only have to pay the 200$ deductable.

986FortyEight · 08-05-2009, 06:26 PM

Can you give us an idea on cost?

Sammy · 08-05-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy

My car is a 2002 S and I have never tracked it, I drive it hard but not more than anyone else.
I have had 3 RMS repairs.
Nothing else has ever been wrong with the motor. I change the oil with 0W40 mobil1 every 5000 miles like clock work. I currently have 65000 miles on the car.

My extended warrenty will expire at 70K so I loaded my car on a transport and sent it to Jake Raby to have the IMS taken care of before I had problems. Aside from a little power loss the car ran good.

Jake opened the motor and found ALL but two of the lifters stuck and locked in place. The chain tentioners have already broken and ready to grenade the motor. Best of all the IMS bering was almost fully broken.

Everything was fixed and I should have the car back soon after a few more minor repairs are done. So to all of those guys who say that IMS and Tentioners dont really go out that often, I say get an extended warrenty and send your car to Raby before it dies.
James

Maybe you should've tracked it? No offense but your case still doesn't mean these things are dropping like flies. I will be sure to note that if I have to repair my RMS 3 times and there is a loss of power than I might just start to think that something is wrong with my engine. Honestly, if I have to repair the RMS again (had to once) than the For Sale sign will go in the window.

chitowndad · 08-05-2009, 06:29 PM

What was the total costs to do those repairs by Jake? I'll need to put some $$ aside...

Jake Raby · 08-14-2009, 02:27 AM

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

Quote:

After talking with you on the phone over the weekend, I took the other cam cover, assemblies, etc. out to send you all the lifters. On my 70K motor, 21 out of 24 lifters were completely locked up. But it only gets worse. If you remember, on the drivers side, the intake cam was off one tooth. That is the side that the Durametric said had the cam angle off.

But looking at the passenger side, the exhaust cam was off two teeth!
Now I bought this car two years ago (used), and when I took this passenger side cam cover off, I noticed that the plugs, etc. had clear "goop" used as a sealing mechanism. So for some reason or another this cover had been off before.

The solenoid pads were just as worn as the other side, I don't know yet if that solenoid works properly.

But it continues to get worse...

Since I took the headers off (the Delubozparts headers - hopefully your testing finds they are worth it) to get the covers off without dropping the motor, I looked up from under the car into the exhaust ports of the head. Shrapnel is stuck in one of the valve openings. $&%@!&

Time to take off the head (which is surprisingly easy without lowering the motor). Head looks to be in ok shape, nothing that can't be machined.

Finally, take the head off and see a bent intake valve, and a cylinder full of debris. The piston is in tiny pieces, the connecting rod is in pieces and looks like it was hit with torch (discolored), and the cylinder sleeve is very scored (but surprisingly not chipped viably)

Here is a pic of his connecting rod...

All he thought he had was a bad vario cam chain tensioner wear pad...

This is a 70K mile engine.

timothy · 08-14-2009, 06:16 AM

Ouch Jake. Wonder what is going on inside my 89k 2.7L?! Or perhaps I'm better off not knowing and just enjoy the ride until that fateful day it goes boom.

Bladecutter · 08-14-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

All he thought he had was a bad vario cam chain tensioner wear pad...

This is a 70K mile engine.

Was his engine still actually running when he went into it?
I can't believe that engine was still running, and he thought he had just a minor issue.

No way.

BC.

Adam · 08-14-2009, 10:24 AM

Why does the crank end of the rod look like it got torched or really hot?

blinkwatt · 08-14-2009, 11:05 AM

Man....people should just calm down....I bet if this thread wasn't started people would drive their M96 engines for 100k+ miles with only the worry of IMS failure....now were going to see lifter threads for years now....

Bladecutter · 08-15-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

FWIW-
Below is an ameail I received from a customer earlier this week.. Look what he says about his lifters:

Hey Jake,

Do you think you can post up pictures of a crapped out valve lifter vs a new/good one?

BC.

JFP in PA · 08-15-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bladecutter

Hey Jake,

Do you think you can post up pictures of a crapped out valve lifter vs a new/good one?

BC.

To what end? There isn't much to see as the problem is internal to the lifter.................

Paul · 08-15-2009, 08:27 PM

Interesting discussion. In most applications a collapsed hydraulic lifter makes enough noise that's it's impossible not to notice it. I'm puzzled when I read that 20 could fail without making a lot of loud rattling noises.

geoff · 08-05-2009, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy

...Jake opened the motor and found ALL but two of the lifters stuck and locked in place. The chain tentioners have already broken and ready to grenade the motor. Best of all the IMS bering was almost fully broken...

I'm no motor expert, but shouldn't the Check Engine Light come on if the lifters were stuck in place?

Jake Raby · 08-05-2009, 07:46 PM

I'll clarify tomorrow exactly what we have found with James' car...

The lifters were not stuck in place.. The hydraulic tappets had frozen, which is absolutely typical at any mileage more than 50K... In this case 20 of the 24 lifters had failed.

We caught his IMS early enough that it could be saved, it partially came apart during the extraction process..

Just because you don't have a CEL doesn't mean you don't have internal wear... The CEL illuminates once a problem of significance occurs.. They call them "idiot lights" for a reason.

If it illuminates, you have waited too long..

I heard James' car fire up twice and after it idled for 30 seconds I knew where to look... That was before listening to it with the scope...

I have documented most every aspect of the repair and if its OK with James I'll post it all here... A true 60K service means opening up the cam covers, inspecting lifters, changing vario cam chain tensioner pads, pulling the sump pan and inspecting for a clogged oil pick up tube or torn oil control windows..

We learned these things by tearing these engines down over and over again and seeing the same trends at the same mileages...

As always we did a pre evaluation on the dyno and tomorrow after we finish the work we'll evaluate it for a true before and after set of comparatives.. Then I'll put 200 test miles on it personally and send it back home...

REALIZE that stuck lifters and worn tensioner pads may not be catastrophic failures alone but they can compound to create a poor running, low power engine that can have valve timing issues that can cost you big.. Its all about preventative maintenance and having someone work on the engine that knows their inherent issues and where to look for them..

BTW- James' 4-6 cylinder bank was 4 degrees retarded on it's cam timing.. at tear down...

Its not my intent to scare anyone, just to give solid information based on real world experience from direct experience with this engine.

I have yet to see a single engine come in for tear down or intervention that didn't have at least 2 malfunctioning lifters... The replacements we have developed won't have these issues again as their internal valving has been altered. That should show up on his dyno graph, it does wonders for my full blown updated performance engines..

James has ben great to work with... Thanks james for sending us your Boxster..

2K3_Boxster_S · 08-05-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhandy

My car is a 2002 S and I have never tracked it, I drive it hard but not more than anyone else.
I have had 3 RMS repairs.
Nothing else has ever been wrong with the motor. I change the oil with 0W40 mobil1 every 5000 miles like clock work. I currently have 65000 miles on the car.

My extended warrenty will expire at 70K so I loaded my car on a transport and sent it to Jake Raby to have the IMS taken care of before I had problems. Aside from a little power loss the car ran good.

Jake opened the motor and found ALL but two of the lifters stuck and locked in place. The chain tentioners have already broken and ready to grenade the motor. Best of all the IMS bering was almost fully broken.

Everything was fixed and I should have the car back soon after a few more minor repairs are done. So to all of those guys who say that IMS and Tentioners dont really go out that often, I say get an extended warrenty and send your car to Raby before it dies.
James

I have a 2003 S with about 60,000 and have had 0 RMS failures. you can't find a drop of oil on the engine, doesn't smoke, etc. etc.. Consumer Reports rates the 2002 Boxster under Major Engine category with the highest reliability rating. and there are 100's of other Boxster owners that haven't experienced any problems. SO what's Your Point?

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18280

Jake Raby · 08-05-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2K3_Boxster_S

I have a 2003 S with about 60,000 and have had 0 RMS failures. you can't find a drop of oil on the engine, doesn't smoke, etc. etc.. Consumer Reports rates the 2002 Boxster under Major Engine category with the highest reliability rating. and there are 100's of other Boxster owners that haven't experienced any problems. SO what's Your Point?

http://www.987forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18280

Drive your car to my shop.. Stand over my shoulder while I pull the lifters from one bank of your engine...

If you don't have at least 4 bad units on that bank I'll pull all the lifters, replace them and replace the vario cam chain tensioner pads for free, parts and labor included...

The only hitch is we document the entire process here, no matter what we find... If the units are bad you only have to buy the upgraded replacement parts.

This is not a joke... I am more than confident that you'll have at least 4 bad units, else I wouldn't risk a preventative measure of this magnitude for free..

Sticky or stuck lifters won't create a failure, but they do effect drive ability, MPG, efficiency, throttle response and the smile on the driver's face.....

I'll use the opportunity to gather footage for another DVD.... What do you say?

2K3_Boxster_S · 08-05-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Drive your car to my shop.. Stand over my shoulder while I pull the lifters from one bank of your engine...

If you don't have at least 4 bad units on that bank I'll pull all the lifters, replace them and replace the vario cam chain tensioner pads for free, parts and labor included...

The only hitch is we document the entire process here, no matter what we find... If the units are bad you only have to buy the upgraded replacement parts.

This is not a joke... I am more than confident that you'll have at least 4 bad units, else I wouldn't risk a preventative measure of this magnitude for free..

Sticky or stuck lifters won't create a failure, but they do effect drive ability, MPG, efficiency, throttle response and the smile on the driver's face.....

I'll use the opportunity to gather footage for another DVD.... What do you say?

I have 2 yrs. 10 month's and about 34,000 miles left on my extended warranty. Fidelis Plantinum. If the engine explodes into a cloud of dust tommorow. I pay $0 labor and $0 for parts while the engine is replaced. So that would be less than what you are offering. Plus I believe that would probably void the warranty. no thanks.