Help w/ Engine Swap: 3.2L into 1999 - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

insite · 03-30-2009, 05:48 AM

weighing / pricing all of my options for replacement engines in my '99. i'm familiar with what's involved in putting a 3.4L into a '99. not sure about a 3.2L; maybe some folks on here know better than i do.

here's my best guess: the 3.2L is basically a 3.4L with a smaller bore. the 3.2L's use eGas and VarioRam. i already have exhaust that will support a 3.2L, so that leaves:

ECU Programming
Throttle Body
VarioRam

my guess is that i can use a mechanical throttle body from a 3.4L and ECU programming identical to a 3.4L. i can then run an extra wire from the DME to the VarioRam actuator and i should be good to go. i am working under the assumption that any 3.2L from 2000-2004 should work fine. am i missing anything?

blue2000s · 03-30-2009, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite

weighing / pricing all of my options for replacement engines in my '99. i'm familiar with what's involved in putting a 3.4L into a '99. not sure about a 3.2L; maybe some folks on here know better than i do.

here's my best guess: the 3.2L is basically a 3.4L with a smaller bore. the 3.2L's use eGas and VarioRam. i already have exhaust that will support a 3.2L, so that leaves:

ECU Programming
Throttle Body
VarioRam

my guess is that i can use a mechanical throttle body from a 3.4L and ECU programming identical to a 3.4L. i can then run an extra wire from the DME to the VarioRam actuator and i should be good to go. i am working under the assumption that any 3.2L from 2000-2004 should work fine. am i missing anything?

Are you looking to do this as inexpensively as possible? Because, if not, you've got the option of using a Motec ECU (others may also do drive-by-wire but I've not seen it) and keeping the variocam and eGas plus you can tune it for max power, driveablility, different gas qualities, different upgrades, and whatever else by yourself. It eliminates the MAF, leaving you with alot of options on the intake.

It takes more work to get set up and tuned, but the ability to tinker is pretty entertaining and you don't ever have to go to someone else for tuning again. There's a lot of data acquisition hardware/software you can get for it. There's engine-based traction control. You can even get a digital gauge cluster! But, of course, this isn't cheap. Just a thought.

insite · 03-30-2009, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue2000s

you've got the option of using a Motec ECU

Motec is an interesting, albeit expensive, proposition. probably will save it for another day for two reasons: cost, and emissions compliance. not sure whether Motec can handle a legal OBD II compliant output. maybe you know? for now, this car needs to remain street legal since it will be a weekend toy as well as track beast.

23109VC · 03-30-2009, 06:29 AM

keep us posted on your progess and decision.

while I am NOT yet in your boat, my 2000, and anyone else here, could be at ANY time. It would be nice to know pretty much whatk ind of hard costs one is going to be looking at to do the various options.

my thoughts are that if you are going to keep the car and fix it - it makes no sense to put in the stockmotor - IF you can upgrade to the 3.2 or 3.4 for only a marginal extra amount. given the high costs of even a stock replacement, it makes sense to do the upgrade.

the question is which way to go. check with Raby and see what his engine choices/costs are like.

i would think that if you could find a low mileage used engine - that might seriously cut down on costs - and that will simply depend on what is out there on the market right now.

then you have to assess the labor costs to install the various swaps.

keep us posted on what you find out. good luck

blue2000s · 03-30-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite

Motec is an interesting, albeit expensive, proposition. probably will save it for another day for two reasons: cost, and emissions compliance. not sure whether Motec can handle a legal OBD II compliant output. maybe you know? for now, this car needs to remain street legal since it will be a weekend toy as well as track beast.

Emissions, bummer. I don't think Motec has OBDII outputs. It seems like it would be an easy thing for Motec to add that plug and the needed signals to their ECu. I wonder why they haven't.

insite · 03-30-2009, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23109VC

the question is which way to go. check with Raby and see what his engine choices/costs are like.

spoken to Raby a couple of times now. his 2.9L (created from my own 2.5L) is one of my top options. it's expensive, but that's because the build really spares no expense. i'm going to go take a tour of his shop sometime; they're doing some really interesting development work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23109VC

then you have to assess the labor costs to install the various swaps.

fortunately i used to work as a mechanic, so i'll do the installation tasks myself.

Blue-S · 03-30-2009, 09:42 AM

I suppose that you would use non-egas 3.4L ECU programming. Would that be "close enough" for a 3.2L? I dunno. I don't know if the VarioRam on/off parameters are similar for a 3.2L vs a 3.4L with its longer intake runners and greater displacement.

You might have a problem with using a 2003-04 3.2L engine, though. If I understand the situation correctly, the 2003-04 engines use a cam phaser sprocket system to vary cam timing instead of the "variable chain tension" system used on the 1997-2002 Boxsters. I would be very surprised if the control strategy was compatible between the two systems. I suspect that a 2000-02 3.2L engine would be easier to adapt to your car if you want to retain the non-egas ECU.

Of course, you'd really be set if you could find an affordable non-egas 3.4L engine...

tholyoak · 03-30-2009, 09:50 AM

I helped a guy on Renntech do just this. You can use the cable throttle body but you want one from a 3.4, the 2.5 one is too small. Then just treat the motor like a 3.4, use the 3.4 program in the 5.2.2 DME etc. No you can't use the later 3.2. As mentioned by Blue-S, the later PWM adjustment on the variocam is not compatible with the earlier DME without custom programming.

-Todd

insite · 03-30-2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tholyoak

I helped a guy on Renntech do just this. You can use the cable throttle body but you want one from a 3.4, the 2.5 one is too small. Then just treat the motor like a 3.4, use the 3.4 program in the 5.2.2 DME etc. No you can't use the later 3.2. As mentioned by Blue-S, the later PWM adjustment on the variocam is not compatible with the earlier DME without custom programming.

so that means an '02 or earlier? good deal. Todd - can you still program the DME's?

tholyoak · 03-31-2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite

so that means an '02 or earlier? good deal. Todd - can you still program the DME's?

yes, pre 7.8 ECU will work with the 5.2.2 ECU in the '99. If you provide the codes I can help you out with programming.

-Todd

Jake Raby · 04-01-2009, 01:35 PM

Motec isn't a necessity. The stock DME is a very powerful unit and is very 'smart". It continues to amaze us with it's ability to conform to engine enhancements of up to 400ccs without the necessity of any intervention.

Insite, Come see me some time...

insite · 04-01-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby

Motec isn't a necessity. The stock DME is a very powerful unit and is very 'smart". It continues to amaze us with it's ability to conform to engine enhancements of up to 400ccs without the necessity of any intervention.

Insite, Come see me some time...

without a doubt! i have every other friday off, so fridays are great for me! i'll give you a shout this week & we can set something up. really looking forward to checking out your voodoo first hand.

Jake Raby · 04-01-2009, 05:04 PM

Sounds good...

A couple days notice is all I'll need to ensure my schedule is open for a visit..

catmanluge · 04-03-2009, 03:10 AM

Insite

Are you replacing your engine? Did the 2.5 expire?

Catman

insite · 04-03-2009, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catmanluge

Insite

Are you replacing your engine? Did the 2.5 expire?

Catman

Indeed! She died on the track two weeks ago (after turning her fastest laps ever!)

Boxtaboy · 04-03-2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite

Indeed! She died on the track two weeks ago (after turning her fastest laps ever!)

Just so you know, there's a guy selling a 2.5L engine with 51k on the clock for pretty cheap on ppbb.com classifieds section. No affiliation.

angman · 04-03-2009, 09:57 AM

How expensive is expensive? This will always be an option for myself as well but if it gets anywhere close to a 3.4/3.2 swap than it doesn't make sense to me as I would rather go with bigger displacement first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by insite

spoken to Raby a couple of times now. his 2.9L (created from my own 2.5L) is one of my top options. it's expensive, but that's because the build really spares no expense. i'm going to go take a tour of his shop sometime; they're doing some really interesting development work.

fortunately i used to work as a mechanic, so i'll do the installation tasks myself.