Go Back   986 Forum - for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners > Porsche Boxster & Cayman Forums > Performance and Technical chat

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-30-2009, 06:48 AM   #1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Help w/ Engine Swap: 3.2L into 1999

weighing / pricing all of my options for replacement engines in my '99. i'm familiar with what's involved in putting a 3.4L into a '99. not sure about a 3.2L; maybe some folks on here know better than i do.

here's my best guess: the 3.2L is basically a 3.4L with a smaller bore. the 3.2L's use eGas and VarioRam. i already have exhaust that will support a 3.2L, so that leaves:

ECU Programming
Throttle Body
VarioRam

my guess is that i can use a mechanical throttle body from a 3.4L and ECU programming identical to a 3.4L. i can then run an extra wire from the DME to the VarioRam actuator and i should be good to go. i am working under the assumption that any 3.2L from 2000-2004 should work fine. am i missing anything?

__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 07:00 AM   #2
Porscheectomy
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 3,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
weighing / pricing all of my options for replacement engines in my '99. i'm familiar with what's involved in putting a 3.4L into a '99. not sure about a 3.2L; maybe some folks on here know better than i do.

here's my best guess: the 3.2L is basically a 3.4L with a smaller bore. the 3.2L's use eGas and VarioRam. i already have exhaust that will support a 3.2L, so that leaves:

ECU Programming
Throttle Body
VarioRam

my guess is that i can use a mechanical throttle body from a 3.4L and ECU programming identical to a 3.4L. i can then run an extra wire from the DME to the VarioRam actuator and i should be good to go. i am working under the assumption that any 3.2L from 2000-2004 should work fine. am i missing anything?
Are you looking to do this as inexpensively as possible? Because, if not, you've got the option of using a Motec ECU (others may also do drive-by-wire but I've not seen it) and keeping the variocam and eGas plus you can tune it for max power, driveablility, different gas qualities, different upgrades, and whatever else by yourself. It eliminates the MAF, leaving you with alot of options on the intake.

It takes more work to get set up and tuned, but the ability to tinker is pretty entertaining and you don't ever have to go to someone else for tuning again. There's a lot of data acquisition hardware/software you can get for it. There's engine-based traction control. You can even get a digital gauge cluster! But, of course, this isn't cheap. Just a thought.

Last edited by blue2000s; 03-30-2009 at 07:11 AM.
blue2000s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 07:12 AM   #3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue2000s
you've got the option of using a Motec ECU

Motec is an interesting, albeit expensive, proposition. probably will save it for another day for two reasons: cost, and emissions compliance. not sure whether Motec can handle a legal OBD II compliant output. maybe you know? for now, this car needs to remain street legal since it will be a weekend toy as well as track beast.
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 07:29 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 726
keep us posted on your progess and decision.

while I am NOT yet in your boat, my 2000, and anyone else here, could be at ANY time. It would be nice to know pretty much whatk ind of hard costs one is going to be looking at to do the various options.

my thoughts are that if you are going to keep the car and fix it - it makes no sense to put in the stockmotor - IF you can upgrade to the 3.2 or 3.4 for only a marginal extra amount. given the high costs of even a stock replacement, it makes sense to do the upgrade.

the question is which way to go. check with Raby and see what his engine choices/costs are like.

i would think that if you could find a low mileage used engine - that might seriously cut down on costs - and that will simply depend on what is out there on the market right now.

then you have to assess the labor costs to install the various swaps.

keep us posted on what you find out. good luck
23109VC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 08:16 AM   #5
Porscheectomy
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 3,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
Motec is an interesting, albeit expensive, proposition. probably will save it for another day for two reasons: cost, and emissions compliance. not sure whether Motec can handle a legal OBD II compliant output. maybe you know? for now, this car needs to remain street legal since it will be a weekend toy as well as track beast.
Emissions, bummer. I don't think Motec has OBDII outputs. It seems like it would be an easy thing for Motec to add that plug and the needed signals to their ECu. I wonder why they haven't.
blue2000s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 08:58 AM   #6
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC
the question is which way to go. check with Raby and see what his engine choices/costs are like.
spoken to Raby a couple of times now. his 2.9L (created from my own 2.5L) is one of my top options. it's expensive, but that's because the build really spares no expense. i'm going to go take a tour of his shop sometime; they're doing some really interesting development work.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 23109VC
then you have to assess the labor costs to install the various swaps.
fortunately i used to work as a mechanic, so i'll do the installation tasks myself.
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 10:42 AM   #7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 129
I suppose that you would use non-egas 3.4L ECU programming. Would that be "close enough" for a 3.2L? I dunno. I don't know if the VarioRam on/off parameters are similar for a 3.2L vs a 3.4L with its longer intake runners and greater displacement.

You might have a problem with using a 2003-04 3.2L engine, though. If I understand the situation correctly, the 2003-04 engines use a cam phaser sprocket system to vary cam timing instead of the "variable chain tension" system used on the 1997-2002 Boxsters. I would be very surprised if the control strategy was compatible between the two systems. I suspect that a 2000-02 3.2L engine would be easier to adapt to your car if you want to retain the non-egas ECU.

Of course, you'd really be set if you could find an affordable non-egas 3.4L engine...
__________________
Blue-S
2000 Boxster S 6-speed - Ocean Blue / Savanna Beige

* 9x7 short shifter * Pedro's enthusiast mount * Carrera Ltw. wheels * Stebro bypass pipes
* M030 coming soon! *
Blue-S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 10:50 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glen Allen, ON
Posts: 312
I helped a guy on Renntech do just this. You can use the cable throttle body but you want one from a 3.4, the 2.5 one is too small. Then just treat the motor like a 3.4, use the 3.4 program in the 5.2.2 DME etc. No you can't use the later 3.2. As mentioned by Blue-S, the later PWM adjustment on the variocam is not compatible with the earlier DME without custom programming.

-Todd
__________________
Current Cars:
1989 911 Targa
1984 944 Original Owner
1971 911T
tholyoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2009, 12:56 PM   #9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by tholyoak
I helped a guy on Renntech do just this. You can use the cable throttle body but you want one from a 3.4, the 2.5 one is too small. Then just treat the motor like a 3.4, use the 3.4 program in the 5.2.2 DME etc. No you can't use the later 3.2. As mentioned by Blue-S, the later PWM adjustment on the variocam is not compatible with the earlier DME without custom programming.
so that means an '02 or earlier? good deal. Todd - can you still program the DME's?
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2009, 10:42 AM   #10
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Glen Allen, ON
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
so that means an '02 or earlier? good deal. Todd - can you still program the DME's?
yes, pre 7.8 ECU will work with the 5.2.2 ECU in the '99. If you provide the codes I can help you out with programming.

-Todd
__________________
Current Cars:
1989 911 Targa
1984 944 Original Owner
1971 911T
tholyoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 02:35 PM   #11
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Motec isn't a necessity. The stock DME is a very powerful unit and is very 'smart". It continues to amaze us with it's ability to conform to engine enhancements of up to 400ccs without the necessity of any intervention.

Insite, Come see me some time...
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 02:58 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Raby
Motec isn't a necessity. The stock DME is a very powerful unit and is very 'smart". It continues to amaze us with it's ability to conform to engine enhancements of up to 400ccs without the necessity of any intervention.

Insite, Come see me some time...
without a doubt! i have every other friday off, so fridays are great for me! i'll give you a shout this week & we can set something up. really looking forward to checking out your voodoo first hand.
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2009, 06:04 PM   #13
Engine Surgeon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Cleveland GA USA
Posts: 2,424
Sounds good...

A couple days notice is all I'll need to ensure my schedule is open for a visit..
Jake Raby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 04:10 AM   #14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mass
Posts: 40
Smile Are you replacing engine

Insite

Are you replacing your engine? Did the 2.5 expire?

Catman
catmanluge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 05:29 AM   #15
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by catmanluge
Insite

Are you replacing your engine? Did the 2.5 expire?

Catman
Indeed! She died on the track two weeks ago (after turning her fastest laps ever!)
__________________
insite
'99 Boxster
3.4L Conversion

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t...1/KMTGPR-1.jpg
insite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 07:40 AM   #16
07 Carrera S Cab
 
Boxtaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,273
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
Indeed! She died on the track two weeks ago (after turning her fastest laps ever!)
Just so you know, there's a guy selling a 2.5L engine with 51k on the clock for pretty cheap on ppbb.com classifieds section. No affiliation.
__________________
Current: 07 Carrera S Cab in Midnight Blue

Previous: 01 Boxster in Arctic Silver, 86 944 in Guards Red
Boxtaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2009, 10:57 AM   #17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 220
How expensive is expensive? This will always be an option for myself as well but if it gets anywhere close to a 3.4/3.2 swap than it doesn't make sense to me as I would rather go with bigger displacement first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by insite
spoken to Raby a couple of times now. his 2.9L (created from my own 2.5L) is one of my top options. it's expensive, but that's because the build really spares no expense. i'm going to go take a tour of his shop sometime; they're doing some really interesting development work.





fortunately i used to work as a mechanic, so i'll do the installation tasks myself.

__________________
97 Arctic Silver/Boxster Red

Carbon Everything
De-ambered
De-snorkled
Litronics
Eibach Pro Kit
Dansk Sport exhaust
Cheap Chinese headers
Silver console and bumperettes
AVIC D3
15mm H&R spacers in the rear
SSR GT3 19's
GT3 Carbon Replicas
Alcantera door panels
JL Aduio 5 channel powering Polks and Clif Designs

To do/complete:
Elemental Designs 10" subs in fiberglass enclosures behind seats
Carbon 3 spoke install with custom stereo control buttons (tiptronic wheel)
angman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page