Poll:IMS related engine failure

[J boxster]

2003 Boxster S, why is this engine more prone to IMS failure?

[Jake Raby]

Originally Posted by J boxster

2003 Boxster S, why is this engine more prone to IMS failure?

Single row IMS Bearing equipped. The weakest of all OEM bearings- period.

[kiyakubuke]

any difference between the failure rate of the base boxster vs the boxster S?

[saintdrug]

Intermediate Shaft Bearing Upgrade. Eternal Fix IMS Boxster 986 / 996 / 997 | eBay

if I buy this will it prevent the fail? next week hopefully I will finilaze my new Porsche purchase

[BYprodriver]

Originally Posted by saintdrug

Intermediate Shaft Bearing Upgrade. Eternal Fix IMS Boxster 986 / 996 / 997 | eBay

if I buy this will it prevent the fail? next week hopefully I will finilaze my new Porsche purchase

Better to get the best bearing available. Go to lnengineering.com and get the best.

[mikefocke]

The claims alone should warn you against this specific product. Nothing is Eternal.

There are IMS replacement bearing kits where many thousands of owners over many years with many tens of thousands of kilometers of driving and many postings on forums might lead you to suspect that they are reliable. There are other newer products where it is too soon to tell...interesting design theories but where is the proof?

And a lot depends on the skill and experience of the installer.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." – Richard Phillips Feynman

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by mikefocke

The claims alone should warn you against this specific product. Nothing is Eternal.

There are IMS replacement bearing kits where many thousands of owners over many years with many tens of thousands of kilometers of driving and many postings on forums might lead you to suspect that they are reliable. There are other newer products where it is too soon to tell...interesting design theories but where is the proof?

And a lot depends on the skill and experience of the installer.

"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." - Christopher Hitchens

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." – Richard Phillips Feynman

Mike, the only thing "eternal" about the IMS is the endless list of "latest and greatest" fixes for a problem that already has a very widely proven retrofit.

[Jake Raby]

I have yet to find anything thats mechanical, thats also eternal. Everything mechanical will wear out, or fail.

[3_Angels]

Note that the "Eternal Fix" has a oil flooded IMS. On the other hand, my 2002 S with 97K miles had a half a cup of oil in the IMS that made it past the seals.

[Lisbon Lion]

Hi All, I’ve just bought today a 1999 Boxster S, black mate. I’m love in it, however I’m concern with the IMS Bering failures, and I’ve contacted a dealer for a change of the Bering. However they say, Porche’s only sells the combo kit with IMS Bering attached to an axel as per attached picture.
No. 12 and 13. they want over 2000 dollars for the job. Is this normal to buy it as a kit ? can I just buy the Bering by itself ?
many thanks and Salute
LL

[Pominoz]

Originally Posted by Lisbon Lion

Hi All, I’ve just bought today a 1999 Boxster S, black mate. I’m love in it, however I’m concern with the IMS Bering failures, and I’ve contacted a dealer for a change of the Bering. However they say, Porche’s only sells the combo kit with IMS Bering attached to an axel as per attached picture.
No. 12 and 13. they want over 2000 dollars for the job. Is this normal to buy it as a kit ? can I just buy the Bering by itself ?
many thanks and Salute
LL

The best option is the LN Engineering Retrofit or the Solution. I've just had the Retrofit done on my Boxster at an Independent Porsche servicer. It's a one day job for the Retrofit, and it just involves taking the transmission off to get access to the bearing, so the costs are not too high.

Problem: IMS Failure. Solution: IMS Retrofit

[mikefocke]

Lion, there are three generations of bearing designs and the housing they run in.

Since I suspect you might be across the pond, I'm not sure what distributors sell in Portugal nor what dealers will install nor what independent Porsche expert mechanics there are available.

Now if you are in the US (as in OH maybe) LN would have a list of approved installers on their web site. Marengo up near Youngstown seems to be the nearest and they have someone who has been trained.

LN markets different kits for different prices for different bearing generations.

Assuming yours is an original engine and not a later replacement, you have the best of the three designs and your bearing is absolutely replaceable if that is so. There is no way to be absolutely sure what bearing design is there without removing the transmission and looking at the parts that hold the bearing to the block as replacement engines could have any of the three designs.

LN is the most often installed bearing replacement kit.

In the US, Porsche itself doesn't offer any replacements for the bearing. And your dealer may well have exhibited just how little he knows about the bearings so I'm not at all sure I'd trust them with an install even if they would do it.

[timlawton]

first off, I'm a newbie here. all of my experiences have been with 911 sc's pre 85 models and mostly on a track....
I just bought my own first Porsche Boxster, year 2000 with 90000 on the clock...
all I could get from the 2 dealers that serviced it (porshe of new Orleans and baton rouge) is that they never changed the bearing. now I'm in a sleepless mode wondering if I have a time bomb on my hands.

the last owner said the owner before him had an indie Porsche shop change the bearing. I have no service records or stamps on the door saying it was done.
car runs fine, sounds fine looks like new and doesn't leak any oil or other fluids...

having said that, am I living on borrowed time, or is statistically a small chance?

tim

[kk2002s]

timlawton- There is so much on this subject on this forum.
Time bomb, eventually. The bearing is going to wear out some time.
But there are other mechanical failures that could get any of us before the bearing goes
So all of us live on borrowed time.
Without doing a visual on the bearing itself, about all you can do is inspect the Oil Filter and drop the Oil sump cover and look for ferrous metal debris. Problem here is if there is debris, then you need to serious have the engine internally cleaned to remove that debris

Many here tend to follow the logic if its time to replace the clutch then replace the bearing at the same time

As you research, there is much on other mechanical parts that one can do preventive replacement to stay ahead of the tow truck

[timlawton]

KK,
thanks for the input. the clutch is fine. feels like a new one. so I hate to drop the box to change a clutch that acts like it ought too.
however, I get the chills thinking about the bearing going tits up though.
there's a good indy Porsche guy here in town. he knows his stuff. all the local guys use him. he said bring the car in and he'll do an eval on the car and run an oil check. he can't get at it for a few weeks though.

this car is sweet and has a bunch of add on's like 19" porsche wheels, a new top, interior is excellent, and the body is great. everything works like it's supposed to except the bulb for the digital speedo is out...(know how to fix that?)

tim

[Smallblock454]

Hello mon_2nd,

that is correct information from the shop. Just enjoy your car, do a frequently oil and filter change, use a good oil and everything will be OK. And if it fails it fails. That's life. If you always think what could happen you'll never be happy and you'll never should drive any car.

And i didn't say that, but this IMS topic is also a nice money machine. Some people didn't know about the IMS problems and have M96 cars that hit 300 K miles without an engine failure.

So enjoy your box, have fun, enjoy live
Markus

[imon_2nd]

Thanks, Markus.

I'm enjoying my Boxster S very much. Currently debating with myself about upgrading the suspension (big $$$) so I can do track days. I sold my track & street Miata and the Box feels too soft for track work in its stock condition.

Cheers,

Dave

[mikefocke]

As always, a warning that a quantity one experience here is meaningless statistically. There are so many possibilities of variations in manufacturing tolerances, maintenance, driving style, weather conditions, hibernation, etc that my experience is meaningless for you.

My second generation bearing was at 93k miles last I heard.

This is a 1% per car year probability issue in the second generation design. (And that probably increases a bit as the car ages and more RPMs get put on the bearing.)

Read a lot and make the decision that is right for you. Your risk tolerance and pocketbook is different from mine.

Stuff happens. You can crash the car the day after you get the new bearing. You can have the engine blow the day after you decide not to change the bearing. Which will make you feel worse?

[rmgaiss]

I have owned a 2004 Boxter S for 5 years. I bought the car used from a dealer in NJ. No records were available, so I took it to my mechanic in Belir, MD. The car had close to 90,000 miles on it. I did the L&K IMS bearing update and changed the clutch. I have 146,000 miles on the car now and have had no issues [knock wood]. I felt the $$ I spend to do the upgrade was well spent, as was the resulting piece of mind. Just my 2 cents.

[Steve Hurt]

Very interesting thread containing important thoughts and information regarding the IMS problem. Events causing why the failure, bearing breakdown, contamination, oil used, driving habits, etc. A lot to consider and why when buying a 1997-2008 Cayman/Boxster 986 & 987.

The following is some of the more important reasons why I just purchased 2002 Boxster S:
The car had excellent service records including LN Engeering INS bearing. The bearing has about 50,000 net miles, car total miles 134,000. Car was driven initially by a long time PCA member until about 109,000 miles; The car was sold to another long time member whose son drove it hard for the balance of the mileage.All checks supported the car being in excellent shape/condition mechanically. I purchased the car with the idea I needed to look at clutch, flywheel, pressure plate,IMS, etc.

In sum, found everything in great shape except for the flywheel and the IMS installation. There was nothing wrong with IMS bearing (50,000 miles) except who installed it leaving surfaces, edges, etc. Evidence of some not really knowing how to install IMS was replaced again as a prevention; flywheel replace with new one. I incurred the necessary expense here because I come from an aviation background (General Aviation, commercial, maintenance, and flying) where prevention is a way doing business.

What are the characteristics around the IMS? Consider some of the following items as causes such as a packed bearing being designed into an area which is usually serviced by pressure oil. It could be the design has been supported by certain driving habit, seal failure, heat, metal failure, oil type, etc. In other words, a whole of probabilities for cause.