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-   -   Poll:IMS related engine failure (http://986forum.com/forums/performance-technical-chat/18280-poll-ims-related-engine-failure.html)

MikenOH 09-21-2008 05:21 PM

Poll:IMS related engine failure
 
Have you had an IMS failure on your Boxster, requiring an engine replacement. Please post what year,engine displacement, mileage and whether it was covered under warranty in the details of your post. Thanks for your help on this.

1)No:97-99MY:
2)Yes: 97-99MY:
3)Yes-multiple failures:97-99MY:
4)No: 2000-2004MY
5)Yes:2000-2004MY
6)Yes-multiple failures:2000-2004MY

Jake Raby 09-22-2008 12:14 PM

I have documentation of a number of failures related to the IMS on most every model. Most of these are from core engines that we are using as a base for our update program so mileage on some is unknown.

blinkwatt 09-22-2008 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake Raby
I have documentation of a number of failures related to the IMS on most every model. Most of these are from core engines that we are using as a base for our update program so mileage on some is unknown.

Care to post them?

MikenOH 09-23-2008 07:13 AM

I may regret not having the 987 on this list
 
A guy on Pete's board just had his diagnosed with an IMS failure at 25K; very early 987--late 04 build IIRC. Apparently the 987's aren't immune.

Ken Cowin 10-17-2008 02:09 PM

I hope to be purchasing a 2003 Boxster S this weekend all being well. The IMS failure you talk about - this is the intermediate shaft coming loose, correct? Did I read that this is located behind the flywheel? If so, can this condition be detected before failure by inspecting behind the flywheel or is a complete engine teardown required to detect the condition and prevent the failure? So far I have only read about engine failures but nothing about how to prevent it.

Thanks for your help.

MikenOH 10-19-2008 06:24 PM

Ken...
 
check the other threads on this topic on the forum, in particular the posts of Jake Raby--an interesting read.

There have been suggestions that more frequent oil changes may help as well as not lugging the engine at low RPM

From what I understand, if the failure is going to happen to your car, there is nothing you can do to prevent it, short of taking the engine apart and putting in a revise bearing assembly along the lines of what Jake has come up with.

The question that has not been answered is why all boxsters with these particular bearing assemblies don't fail in the same relative time frame--say 30-60K miles. It could be due to driving, maintenance habits or that the bearing supplier has terrible QC and these are random failures due to the luck of the draw as which bear goes in your car.

In other words, no one knows for sure outside of Porsche and they aren't talking.

turbo23dog 10-19-2008 07:37 PM

I was at a local independent shop specializing in Pcars this past Thursday to pick up some tune up parts. It seems they just replaced a 3.4L engine from a 2002 996 due to IMS failure and the old engine was in a corner of the shop sitting on the pallet the new engine had arrived on.

The tech showed me the actual broken end of the Intermediate Main Shaft. I was able to hold the broken end of the shaft in my hand and it still had the "nut" on the end of it. To my untrained eye, it looked like the nut was over tightened and the stress over time caused the metal to fatigue and the shaft seperated at its weakest point. The tech didn't think so. He did think that the failure patten was random and offered that maybe random batches of the shafts were defective from the factory that supplies the shafts (something gone wrong with the forging process), meaning that its a total crapshoot to which IMS your engine got at the time it was assembled.

Again, no science behind this, just pure speculation, but interesting nontheless.

Brucelee 10-20-2008 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbo23dog
I was at a local independent shop specializing in Pcars this past Thursday to pick up some tune up parts. It seems they just replaced a 3.4L engine from a 2002 996 due to IMS failure and the old engine was in a corner of the shop sitting on the pallet the new engine had arrived on.

The tech showed me the actual broken end of the Intermediate Main Shaft. I was able to hold the broken end of the shaft in my hand and it still had the "nut" on the end of it. To my untrained eye, it looked like the nut was over tightened and the stress over time caused the metal to fatigue and the shaft seperated at its weakest point. The tech didn't think so. He did think that the failure patten was random and offered that maybe random batches of the shafts were defective from the factory that supplies the shafts (something gone wrong with the forging process), meaning that its a total crapshoot to which IMS your engine got at the time it was assembled.

Again, no science behind this, just pure speculation, but interesting nontheless.


Interesting. You would think the factory could have sorted this out by now?

:confused:

Jake Raby 10-20-2008 10:16 AM

Here is the answer to the IMS issue.

Porsche could have done this, but it would have cost them a couple of Nickels per engine.

Read about it next month in Excellence L:-)

Billet double row arrangement on the left, stock early on the right.. Every aspect of the billet arrangement is bigger and stronger. The IMS it's self must be modified for our newest generation to be used, the one pictured is Generation II, Gen III is now in service.

http://www.lnengineering.com/149.jpg

stephen wilson 10-20-2008 01:09 PM

I've "heard" that late '05 and later Boxsters have an improved design, is there any truth to that? How much would it cost to preemptively install your upgraded part? Since It virtually requires a rebuild of the engine, do you provide a "core charge" for the exchange of a good running engine?
Thanks,
Steve

Jake Raby 10-20-2008 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephen wilson
I've "heard" that late '05 and later Boxsters have an improved design, is there any truth to that? How much would it cost to preemptively install your upgraded part? Since It virtually requires a rebuild of the engine, do you provide a "core charge" for the exchange of a good running engine?
Thanks,
Steve

The upgraded IMS bearing and IMS cost 895.00 as a unit..

BUT the engine must be disassembled completely and at the same time we apply Nikisil plated cylinders to avoid the D chunk failures and apply our other upgrade components.

Good ruunnings have the same core value to us as those that have already failed, because its just a matter of time till the inevitable occurs.

stephen wilson 10-20-2008 02:28 PM

I guess my question is, I don't see prices for rebuilds on your site, just complete engines. I was looking for the cost of rebuilding/upgrading an existing engine, presumably less expensive than a complete engine.
Steve

Jake Raby 10-20-2008 03:48 PM

We only offer a completely updated engine.. This engine is sold exchange, or we can build it from your core.

We don't take any chances... We don't give any opportunity for future failoue by updating every aspect of the engine. With a rebuild that doesn't address the issue of the M96 engine it could fail 20 minutes after our work is completed.

stephen wilson 10-21-2008 07:10 AM

OK, I understand. I was just hoping there was a less expensive option!
Thanks,
Steve

Jake Raby 10-21-2008 12:36 PM

I am with ya.. I wish we could make these so they could be installed without disassembly as they'd sell like mad!

Ken Cowin 10-21-2008 02:00 PM

Well, I bought the Boxster! It's awesome. I took all the great back roads home in the north Georgia mountains, North Carolina and Tennessee - so it's already had quite a workout. I have looked in to getting the "aftermarket" Porsche warrantee to help protect against the cost of this engine failure. The cost of the warrantee itself is pretty reasonable - $1000 for 3 or 4 years - but it expressly does not cover cars used on the track. Since I got this car specifically for track days as well as a daily driver it sounds like they would give me a tough time with a claim, even if the failure occurred on the street - let alone the track.

Nineteen89 12-11-2008 11:00 AM

I tried to look around here and on other sites but found nothing (maybe I just ddin't use the correct terms but I did use M96) so please don't just respond with a simple "search the forums" please =)

Am I correct in understanding that the IMS failure affects every and all boxsters regardless of year or trim? (since someone with a 987 has had it) So basically the newer the car, the less likely, but still probable chance of getting IMS?

MikenOH 12-12-2008 06:57 AM

It's my understanding--some experts can chime in here--that there have been IMS failures on all years through 2005 reported.

IIRC, there was a change on the IMS bearing assy. made in 2001(?) because of a different chain set up (?) to lessen the noise, which may have made for a weaker IMS assembly. Looking at the reports from all the forums, I see more cars reporting IMS failures in the 2001-2004 years than any . Having said that, there have been a number of 2005 owners that have had their engines replaced due to IMS problems.

Sometime in late 2005--10-11/2005(?) a change was made to the IMS shaft--larger diameter--in the hope that would lessen the failures; more things may have been changed that I'm not aware of. So, if you buy a car produced sometime after Jan. of Feb 2006, you've got a good chance of getting the latest IMS "fix. The real fix is a car with the DFI (direct fuel injection) motor which does away with the IMS altogether and is being released with the 2009 3.4L engine in the Boxster.

BTW,this problem has been reported on the 2.5, 2.7, and 3.2L motors.

Jake Raby 12-12-2008 03:13 PM

Two days ago I received an email from someone that had a 2007 Boxster with his second IMS failure, thats not the first call I have gotten from those with -05 and later cars.

stephen wilson 12-15-2008 02:53 PM

So Jake, can you confirm a change in '06? Is it any improvement? I only harp on this because I'm ready to buy, and in my price range I'm looking at an '03-'04 S, or an '06 base model. I would only consider a newer base model if engine reliability was improved.
Thanks,
Steve


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