How to remove charcoal canister and not get CEL?

[Brad Roberts]

Ahh.. UK! Now I know why your English is "proper"!

My whole family is of Danish decent

Worst case scenario (my passport is up to date) I fly in to help out!! LOL



B

[MaxD]

Daverb,
I have pretty much followed the same course as you with the smog pump. Bought the cover plates, disassembled what I could to install them, then punted to a later time when I might be taking the intake manifold off. I've run with the pump hose blocked for some time. I get an intermittent CEL on starts when its cold (< 50F) and just clear it with the Durametric tool when I get around to it. Shouldn't apply to you since I assume you have the ROW tune.

I will concur with Laurie that you don't need any of the fans. We both live in much hotter climes than the UK (Texas and Utah) and as long as the car is moving you are fine. If you get stuck on grid for an extended period just shut it down.

Max

[Daverb]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

Yes. Correct on the parts list. The covers typically run $5-7 US and no, you do not need to remove the plenum. You have to be creative

Sorry to dig this up again I know its an old thread.

I have just purchased a Boxster race car - I noticed it still had the fuel canister, smog pump and fan bay in place.

With the help of this thread I have removed the fuel canister.

I have decided to leave the bay fan in place as it will be useful - especially as the engine is enclosed. Ive put a switch on so that I can turn it on manually.

With the smog pump - I removed it. Purchased the 2 plates and gaskets I need - however looking at it I can't see how this can be done without removing the inlet manifold nearest the smog pump??

I removed both middle parts of the inlet manifold which gives good access under the other inlet manifold but with the inlet manifold nearest the pump there is too much stuff underneath it. And the bolts are on the bottom for the part I need to replace too.

The oil filler pipe is the main thing. If I could get that removed it might be possible. However reading up on this it has 2 bolts and one you need to remove the alternator to get to.

Anyway....basically can anyone give me any clues/tips to fit the small plates for smog pump removal.

Also - do the plates actually need to be fitted? Could you remove the smog pump and fit a small breather filter in the hose left sticking out the inlet manifold.

[Jittsl]

Brad Roberts is the guy to know the answer to this but I haven't seen him on the board lately- mine was done before the motor was put back in so I can't help you. If he doesn't respond in the next couple of days I'll email him and wake him up.

PS in my experience (and my car runs in the hottest of conditions) when these cars are used as race cars (ie they are never idling in traffic) they really don't need either the engine fan or for that matter the cooling fans. Weight is weight and if you don't need it is has no place on a race car.

[Brad Roberts]

Ha ha.. NO Here in SoCal (I mean NorMex) we speak Spanish and English.

[Kroggers]

So, I removed the smog pump today. All that I have remaining is the rubber tube that disappears under the intake system.

I am wondering if I can just block this tube off for now, or do I have to get to the other end of it and do something???

[Brad Roberts]

No need to block it off. Just disconnect the plug going to the gray solenoid hanging on the side of the intake plenum. Leave the vacuum lines on the solenoid, but disconnect the electrical connector. This will keep the valve from opening and nothing will come out or go into that black rubber tube. It will come off soon!!

You can easily install those flat plates and remove everything by pulling your IPD piece back out


B

[Kroggers]

Originally Posted by Brad Roberts

No need to block it off. Just disconnect the plug going to the gray solenoid hanging on the side of the intake plenum. Leave the vacuum lines on the solenoid, but disconnect the electrical connector. This will keep the valve from opening and nothing will come out or go into that black rubber tube. It will come off soon!!

You can easily install those flat plates and remove everything by pulling your IPD piece back out


B

OK, you got me - what grey solenoid? Do you have a picture to help me out here? If the solenoid is disconnected, can I then also remove it?

Aha, I was going to pull the IPD to one side to see if I got access. Will do that then

Back onto the original subject - the charcoal canister. I am trying to identify where the breather line from the top of the tank goes. On the top of the fuel level sender there is 3 lines:
1. Fuel send
2. Fuel return
3. Breather - where is the other end of this line?

[Kroggers]

OK Brad, had some more good progress in the garage already today and now I am stuck and have some questions for you regarding the charcoal canister and the related connections

I will start by saying I was surprised as to how heavy the charcoal canister is - glad to have that removed from the car!

But now that the canister is gone, I have two lines I am not sure what to do with.

The one marked with the red arrow I have figured out to be the breather on the top of the fuel level sender stuck in the top of the tank and the one I want to keep unplugged to make sure the tank is venting properly.

But the other two I am not sure about. Where do these go and what do I do with them. Should they be left open or should they be blocked off.



Thank you for your time and assistance

[Kroggers]

Here is a picture from my completed removal project. In the future, I will probably remove the two blocked vent lines, but kept them in there for now - keep it simple



I pulled everything out and just let the tank vent to atmosphere under the liner - you can see the vent line attached to the metal bracket.

As for smell in the garage - my 911 (1978 SC) also vents to atmosphere and I do not get any heavy petrol smell in the garage, but maybe it does not get hot enough over here for me to notice it?

I have not had a chance to test it yet, but I did start the engine and let it idle for some time and I did not get a CEL from having removed it all.

My car was not the same as the diagram that Brad posted. I Think the US cars have more stuff in the system than the cars over here. I for instance did not have item 5.

@The Radium King - I can host the book for download on the CoolCava Racing servers...

[Jittsl]

Kroggers, just thought you would want to know that one of the hoses you have blocked off is actually a vent hose that runs all the way to the rear of the car and exits under the the trunk floor just behind the bumper (maybe behind the foil heat liner in your case. In my case the heat sheild has been removed).

I found the vent pipe by blowing compressed air into both of hoses that are blanked in your case. One of them does not allow any air to move, the other does. With the one that does you will hear the air escaping at the rear. By your photo from earlier the vent pipe will be the green arrowed hose that previously attached to the top of the canister. By the diagram provided by Brad this is the hose that exits out the top of 6 and disappears to the top right of the picture. If you have not upset there original positioning it will be the lower of the two you have locked off.

I simply looped the hose from the tank (red arrow from above) with the one that exits the rear (green). The other is still blanked until I figure out how (or whether) to remove it. From the diagram we know it runs to the "tank vent valve" but I have no idea what that is or where it is

All of this was prompted by the fact that I was getting a smell of fuel in my car (which I had previously set up exactly as you have) whilst on the track. Hopefully this should fix it.

Laurie

[landrovered]

The CEL is set and triggered like this.

http://www.paladinmicro.com/documents/EVAPMonitor.pdf

Combine this with the drawing and you will get someplace.

Cheers!

[Kroggers]

Thank you Laurie, that is good stuff to know. I will leave it as is for now, but if I do start to get a fuel smell during racing, then I will do as you have done as well...

That is interesting stuff Landrovered, I will read it in more detail. And see if the CEL does trigger whilst racing - once the season starts...

[JSG1901]

I know this is a terribly old thread, but I'm hoping somebody who was in this conversation back in the day may be able to shed a little light on my version of the same question. 2000 Boxster S race car. As were others in this thread, I'm also trying to get rid of as many of these EVAP parts as possible, but mine look a little different than those shown here, AND I don't see any mention of whether or not we need to keep the fuel vapor purge valve.

Here's my whole system:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50618552528_4108b2dbc3_b.jpg


Here is a close-up of the purge valve:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50619291511_a72a2052e7_b.jpg


And here's a close-up of the charcoal canister:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50619399242_e360dc3cd8_b.jpg


The letters on colored backgrounds show the various hoses and wires and are the same on all the photos for easy reference.

Here's what I think I know...

1. A, B, and E all go down toward the gas tank.
2. B seems to go INTO the gas tank (I can hear bubbling if I use compressed air in it).
3. C seems to come from the purge valve to the charcoal canister.
4. D comes from the gas filler "cup" in the fender, and down into the purge valve.
5. E goes between the purge valve and...? Maybe the gas tank. I can't tell where it ends up, nor which way the flow may be.
6. F and G are electrical connections on the purge valve.

My questions:

1. Do I have to keep the purge valve, or can it be removed, too?
2. Either way, which of these parts do I need to keep (and/or connect to one another) and which can I remove?

I've tried blowing air down all these hoses and, so far at least, I haven't been able to hear anything at the back of the car...but I may need to have an assistant help me with that.

Any help you may be able to provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[ike84]

Originally Posted by JSG1901

I know this is a terribly old thread, but I'm hoping somebody who was in this conversation back in the day may be able to shed a little light on my version of the same question. 2000 Boxster S race car. As were others in this thread, I'm also trying to get rid of as many of these EVAP parts as possible, but mine look a little different than those shown here, AND I don't see any mention of whether or not we need to keep the fuel vapor purge valve.

Here's my whole system:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50618552528_4108b2dbc3_b.jpg


Here is a close-up of the purge valve:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50619291511_a72a2052e7_b.jpg


And here's a close-up of the charcoal canister:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50619399242_e360dc3cd8_b.jpg


The letters on colored backgrounds show the various hoses and wires and are the same on all the photos for easy reference.

Here's what I think I know...

1. A, B, and E all go down toward the gas tank.
2. B seems to go INTO the gas tank (I can hear bubbling if I use compressed air in it).
3. C seems to come from the purge valve to the charcoal canister.
4. D comes from the gas filler "cup" in the fender, and down into the purge valve.
5. E goes between the purge valve and...? Maybe the gas tank. I can't tell where it ends up, nor which way the flow may be.
6. F and G are electrical connections on the purge valve.

My questions:

1. Do I have to keep the purge valve, or can it be removed, too?
2. Either way, which of these parts do I need to keep (and/or connect to one another) and which can I remove?

I've tried blowing air down all these hoses and, so far at least, I haven't been able to hear anything at the back of the car...but I may need to have an assistant help me with that.

Any help you may be able to provide will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Hey J, any progress with this project? This is coming up on my to do list and I was hoping you figured these out. I have no idea what goes where, but there should be at least one hose that runs from the evap canister back to the intake manifold and one that will vent to atmosphere somewhere near the rear. I have a feeling that the third line from the evap canister feeds back to the purge valve, which maybe serves to be a central "hub" for collecting fumes and feeding them to the evap canister. That last part is purely a guess though.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[rezanourai]

Hey guys, were you able to figure this out? I am looking to do the same on my 2000 S race car and have this exact same setup as shown in the pics with the labeled letters. Trying to figure out the best way to do this....

[ike84]

My place got leveled by a tornado 2 weeks ago so sadly my work toward this project has been put on hold. I'll keep you updated though when I'm able to pick it back up

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[rezanourai]

Originally Posted by ike84

My place got leveled by a tornado 2 weeks ago so sadly my work toward this project has been put on hold. I'll keep you updated though when I'm able to pick it back up

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

Oh no, sorry to hear that

I removed all the wiring to the EVAP system, but all the components are still there. So as far as I can tell, I'm just trapping vapor in the charcoal canister but never purging it, so eventually the activated carbon in there will just get saturated. I'm really worried about venting gas fumes in my garage, so trying to figure out the safest solution here. I'm considering a pressure valve with a fairly low threshold that would stay closed when the car is just sitting there, but would open to allow vapor flow as soon as any pressure builds up. The other thing I'm worried about is what would happen in the (hopefully never) case of a roll over. I wouldn't want gasoline running out through the open line and all over the ground.

So ideally, I'm thinking a small pressure valve between the line coming off the tank and before I connect it to the line going out the back of the car. Then cap off the other line (goes to the intake manifold I think) and remove everything else.

[ike84]

This is something I posted a while ago, same OP, same pic as above...

Robert, the line from the filter neck is a vent that allows fuel to flow freely when fueling. Don't mess with this, it is the source of agony for those whose have gone awry.

B should be your tank vent. Don't block that off or you will have problems. A should be the filler neck vent line, see if you can trace it to the valve housing at the top of the fill neck

E should run back to the intake manifold and insert where the AOS connection is located. Pop off your inner panels and connect the dots. You may just be able to tell by the hose diameter.

This would mean that the system is set up as follows - 2 vents come into the canister, and when the purge valve opens the vapors flow into the purge valve via C to mix with neck overflow from D and then onto the intake via E.

I think the most important thing here is to confirm that the lines running into the canister are vent lines and to not block them off. I would just Y them back into the purge valve via C. Theoretically you could remove the purge valve assembly and Y everything together but I'm not sure what that would do in terms of unmetered fuel entering the system and it worked likely throw a CEL if you disconnect the wiring harness for those two solenoids.

I should say that I have no idea if any of this is correct, I'm guessing based on my (limited) knowledge of what should be there. This project is on my build list but I probably won't get there soon, but when I do I'll let you know.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

[rezanourai]

Originally Posted by ike84

This is something I posted a while ago, same OP, same pic as above...

Robert, the line from the filter neck is a vent that allows fuel to flow freely when fueling. Don't mess with this, it is the source of agony for those whose have gone awry.

B should be your tank vent. Don't block that off or you will have problems. A should be the filler neck vent line, see if you can trace it to the valve housing at the top of the fill neck

E should run back to the intake manifold and insert where the AOS connection is located. Pop off your inner panels and connect the dots. You may just be able to tell by the hose diameter.

This would mean that the system is set up as follows - 2 vents come into the canister, and when the purge valve opens the vapors flow into the purge valve via C to mix with neck overflow from D and then onto the intake via E.

I think the most important thing here is to confirm that the lines running into the canister are vent lines and to not block them off. I would just Y them back into the purge valve via C. Theoretically you could remove the purge valve assembly and Y everything together but I'm not sure what that would do in terms of unmetered fuel entering the system and it worked likely throw a CEL if you disconnect the wiring harness for those two solenoids.

I should say that I have no idea if any of this is correct, I'm guessing based on my (limited) knowledge of what should be there. This project is on my build list but I probably won't get there soon, but when I do I'll let you know.

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

Sent from my POCOPHONE F1 using Tapatalk

So if I'm understanding that correctly, you're saying that you'd route the vent directly to the intake side, bypassing both canister & purge valve. What happens when the car is just sitting in the garage for a long time without running? Do the vapors just build up and pressurize in the intake? What about when you are burning fuel and it needs to suck air back in to equalize pressure? I guess it can pull it from the intake in that case, which should be fine.

I was initially thinking of creating a Y from the filler neck hose & the fuel vent hose and then running it through a valve like this (https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=24924, different size but that general idea) and out through the back of the car somewhere