Doing trackdays vs actually learning to drive

[Brad Roberts]

GGR event or LPR? The go to Boxster instructor for PCA NorCal AutoX and track is Dan Thompson. He has more seat time in Boxsters and 914's than any of the other NorCal guys who show up to their PCA events. When Dan is done with you, find Larry Sharp. Larry ran SCCA PRO SOLO and SOLOII in a full factory backed Ford ride He knows his sh_t.

I'm assuming you will be attending the PCA Time trial at Laguna? In Nov.? (Dan called me and asked me to attend)

You are in the perfect spot in the USA for seat time. Muliple AutoX events EVERY weekend with 4 different regions and 2 world class tracks within 2 hours of your house!

DO NOT run to the track events until you have beaten the fastest guy in your AX class!! Until you can do that.. your not ready. DO NOT go straight to sticky tires!!

At one point in time, I had 8-10 newbie drivers in GGR PCA AutoX I know the area and the people very well!


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[Brad Roberts]

Some of the people above me poo poo'd the pro instruction idea.. I'm betting none of them have ever paid for pro instruction

Remember this: You get what you pay for. PCA doesn't pay their instructors. They are all volunteers. Now before somebody rips me.. I know full well PCA has good instructors nationwide (I listed off the top NorCal "free" guy's, but telling someone pro instruction isn't worth it? You haven't been instructed by a PRO.

I deal with multiple pro instructors. 2 days with a PRO and you will leapfrog all the naysayers (or your money back) These are guy's like Ryan Eversely,Craig Stanton,Gene Sigal, just to name a few local guy's who are at the track every day of the week instructing people!! Every day!! I see them everywhere I go!! lol They know how to handle newbies as well as experienced people looking for the last "tenth" Within 2 laps they know where you are and adjust the "curriculum" accordingly. When they take you out in your car.. they will not try to scare the sh_t out you and they will not drive 10/10ths

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[nefarious986]

Hey Brad,

Yup, will be attending Laguna in Nov .. as far as not running to track until I'm the fastest AXer in my class .. kinda too late since I already signed up. =]

I know the track is a totally different animal than an AX course, so I wont be out there trying to win any checkered flags. My main purpose is just to have a fun day and get to know the track before taking my bike there for trackdays next year.

So far I've only attended GGR region stuff .. wanted to check out LPR too but couldnt make it .. definitely next year. HOPING that I can make it to all the GGR events and atleast 3-4 LPR event .. we'll see how that works out. =]

I might head to seek out a pro mid next year with a few more events .. depending on if I'm actually improving or if I hit a plateau .. what is a good school within a reasonable distance that you would suggest for a newbie like me ?

[Brad Roberts]

How about a school in San Diego? San Diego PCA has the best car control clinic in the USA hands down. GGR has a good school, but out of all the schools I have attended over the last 25 years.. San Diego region!~! I started AutoX'ing at age 16 in 86 with Maverick Region in Texas. No matter how much seat time I have had.. I still attend the schools when I can swing it.

Track school? Um?? Laguna.. lol Skip Barber has 1 day,2 day, 3 day 1week and 2week courses. The 1-2 day courses are more about car control and awareness.

Good luck!!

If you are bored next weekend, the Porsche Owners Club is at Thunderhill I'm coming up from SoCal to reconnect with some of my old Porsche friends from NorCal that will be running the event.


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[nefarious986]

Hey Brad,

Thanks for the invite but I'm going to be helping my sister move next weekend. I took a look @ the POC site though and they seem to do more track events vs PCA which seems to focus on AX, which is great as it gives me more flexibility next year when I want to get on track vs an AX course.

Skip Barber is definitely pricey .. lol .. I am already saving up pennies to attend Keith Code's CSS next year for my 30th gift to myself. Unless I get a big raise, Skip is going to have to wait until next year. =(

This learning to race stuff isn't cheap at all .. LOL

[Brad Roberts]

Those of us who work 24/7 in the industry call it "crack".. and we are the drug dealers I suggest AutoX for at least one year. Save your money. AutoX will always translate to road racing/track events later.


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[nefarious986]

I think "crack" might actually be cheaper .. LOL

[The Radium King]

come on up to vancouver; the pca canada west region (cwr) now uses a driving school to run their hpde events, so you get a pro instructor with the cost of admission. mission raceway is a short but technical track and great to learn on.

[Brad Roberts]

The crack is cheaper!! and the US govt. just reduced the sentence if you get caught with it!!



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[stephen wilson]

Sorry for the delayed response. A few good general racing books are "Winning, a race driver's handbook" by Anderson, "Going faster"-Skip Barber, and "High performance driving" by Bob Bondurant. They aren't Auto-cross specific, but the concepts are the same.

Reading is helpful for many reasons: You can't learn how to drive sitting on the couch after dinner, but you can gain knowledge by reading about it. Understanding the physics of WHY a car behaves the way it does will allow you to modify your inputs to get the best out of it. For instance, which driver inputs will make a car understeer or oversteer. The theory will also help you understand suspension tuning. Like, what will installing stiffer rear springs or anti-roll bar will do?

In addition, as others have mentioned, not all the advice you receive will be good, whether from friend, competitors, or instructors. How will you know if you have no personal knowledge of the subject? You have to be equipped to filter advice, and decide what works for you.

I also agree that professional instruction is the best, and most expensive option.

Also, being a demon late-braker is the last thing to work on, and is usually the last thing a driver learns to do well. Granted,my experience is in SCCA road racing, but Auto-cross shouldn't defer too much.

[nefarious986]

Quick update after my first DE @ Laguna. I had a BLAST .. thanks GGR!

A few personal notes:

1. I -->BADLY<-- need to learn how to heel and toe downshift. Rev-matching without heel and toe works for me on the street, but was so slow on the track I had to point 2-3 cars by on turn 11 almost every time.

2. Laguna requires / deserves respect. Those walls come up reeeal quick. There was a few incidents but thankfully everyone was okay.

3. Tires / brakes goes away real fast compared to AX, but then it should since you're driving for 20 minutes @ a time vs ~1 minute.

4. DE makes you want to spend money to mod the crap out of your little Boxster to not get passed on straights by GT3s and 911s ( LOL .. like that's even possible ).

5. GoPro mounts ( double side sticky mounts ) will NOT stick anywhere on our dash. =( I bought a new GP and was not able to record any of the laps.

[kabel]

^ "Like"

[ekam]

You can definitely learn to heel-and-toe on the street, just at a lower rpm than on the track but it's still good practice to get the feel of rev points when you downshift.

[stephen wilson]

Definitely H&T on the street. I do all the time, it helps make it second nature.

[DenverSteve]

Originally Posted by ekam

Practice makes perfect. Having an instructor helps.

No sorry - Proper Practice Makes Perfect (better). Practicing bad habits simply ingrain bad habits. Like any sport, get proper instruction from someone who actually knows what you're doing less than perfect and then practice that.

[Sawfish]

San Diego PCA is planning a performance driving school at Qualcomm stadium.
Sat./Sun May 5-6 P.D.S. Peformance Driving School
I had already completed 13 AX before I attended but was able to shave some serious times after completion. The PDS will give you two full days of seat time practicing corners and techniques over & over. I thought it was a very valuable experience.

[986_c6]

Nefarious, learning to properly drive the car is no different than golfing/skiing/bowling/basketball/etc. Learn from someone to get rid of bad habits and practice as much as you can.

Some pointers that others have mentioned already:
1) Driving position like Nascar or any other racer, arms/legs bent at maximum steering/pedal push.
2) Smooth, smooth, smooth (I make my HPDE students drive in one gear the first few sessions of the day)...shifting? overrated in imo.
3) Learn to drive the max out of stock tires/brakes/suspension/hp before upgrading. Then when it is time to upgrade, you will KNOW how to use the upgrades and will be much happier for it (I didn't use R-comp tires until 5 years into tracking).

It is the best feeling in the world when everyone in the top run group has mods/r-comps, and they come by after a session to find out you are running street tires and pretty much stock everything.:dance::dance::dance:

[Brad Roberts]

3) Learn to drive the max out of stock tires/brakes/suspension/hp before upgrading

I recently told someone this again..

Until you "win" your class in AutoX or TT, there is NO reason to spend money on tires/etc.

Kickass first, then moveup!


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[thstone]

Brad, that was exactly what you said to me when you were giving me driving feedback at Fontana a few weeks ago. Great advice.

And 986 C6 has it right, its a great feeling to have someone come over at the track and ask if you're running a 3.2 or spec box suspension and you get to tell them that you're running a base 2.5 completely stock and they walk away trying to figure out how your lap time could possibly be faster than their time in a car with 300+hp.

[madmods]

If you are not 100% confident when going fast, just give up and save your money RE instructors! You will simply never be fast. Personally, this is my case-my problem and that's why I don't put the car on the track much or at all really. I am petrified going at over 160km/hr in 'any' 2-4 seats car higher than 100cm. And the fear gets much worst when I'm in the passenger seat

However, if you are 100% confident, understand apex entries and exit momentums (e.g. blood racer), fine with inertia, and a little crazy but smart.... then I promisse you'll bring all the Cups home mate

RE instructors, sorry mate but those are for the wifes (second-drivers)